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Re: [AUDITORY] Who coined the term "head-related transfer function"?



On this discussion…

 

I can’t really imagine what you could mean by « unadulterated » in this context. The previous comments, regarding HRTF being time-varying, is in relation to the fact that are heads are mobile, turning, providing dynamic as well as static cues. Over the long term, there is the fact that our head and ears are growing. Issues related to inner ear response and level are a function of the sound source and therefore will occur during playback. There is no reason to incorporate this context dependent and non-directional information in the HRTF as we understand it.

 

Cognitive adaptation related to how our brains interpret the HRTF acoustic cues, for example how we learn our evolving HRTF as our head gets bigger. This in no way affects the actual HRTF, but our improved use of it individually. Continuing on this line, it has been shown that it is easier to adapt/learn and HRTF that is similar to your own than one that is very different…

 

The KEMAR dummy head HRTF is a simple HRTF, like any other. The KEMAR head was created after some morphological statistics of a certain population. None the less, it represents an HRTF like any other, dummy or otherwise. What makes KEMAR, and other dummy heads useful, other than practicalities of measuring an immobile subject who doesn’t complain about loud sources, is that there are identical copies of the “subject”  around the world, providing a useful physical reference.

 

Finally, how the KEMAR HRTF is received by a given individual is governed by the same issues relating to all other HRTFs, the closer the morphology of the individual is to that of KEMAR the better. There is no guarantee in any way that KEMAR will work will for a given individual, and nothing that says it will work for more of the population than another statistically selected HRTF. The recent availability of many HRTF databases of course improves the statistical efforts towards understanding the connections between HRTF and morphology, HRTF perceptual suitability for a given individual, and of course the chance that an HRTF similar to your own is more available (if you can’t have your own measured).

 

Well, that’s my thoughts at least…

--

Brian FG Katz

Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique – Musique

Sorbonne Université, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond ∂'Alembert

http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz

 

From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pierre Divenyi
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 6:58 PM
To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Who coined the term "head-related transfer function"?

 

Dick,

Sorry -- I did not realize that I was responding not to your idea but to a translation of Jens Blauert's posting. This being the case, what's your opinion about the KEMAR's HRTFs being the only unadulterated ones?

Pierre

On 2/25/18 9:39 PM, Richard F. Lyon wrote:

Pierre, you're replying to me for what I translated from Blauert.  Please amend.

Dick

 

2018-02-25 21:33 GMT-08:00 PIerre DIVENYI <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Dick,

 

Reading your very thoughtful analyis the real, I mean “real,” question that comes to mind is what, if any, the use of the many available HRTF databases is, since (as you state) these functions are time varying and even subject to cognitvely induced changes. This being the case, the only reliable HRTFs are those measured in KEMAR, a head the cognitive functions inside which should be negligible. 

 

Pierre

 

Sent from my iPad


On Feb 25, 2018, at 19:16, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello Mr. Schoenwiesner -
Here are the mails that have come to me. As Dorte Hammershoei rightly notes, the outer ear transmission functions are old hat. In particular, Shaw has contributed much to this. The word "head-related" has long been common and semantically correct in stereophony as opposed to "spatially referenced". The transfer function to the eardrum from a plane wave or the near field of a source are not head related, but are just the transfer functions of the head (together with the upper body). At the time, Geo Plenge had a big problem with Dennis McFadden, who did not want to print his article on Out-of-the-Head Locality. I always suspect nor that Dennis suggested the wrong term HRTf, instead of HTF, which would have been better. Now, the abbreviation HRTF but has introduced worldwide, and especially Americans love handy shortcuts. More interesting today is the question to what extent HRTFs, which presuppose LTI systems, describe the situation with sufficient accuracy. For example, the eardrum impedance is modulation-dependent. This is but u.a. controlled by the middle ear muscle reflex, where even cognitive feedback plays a role. Furthermore, head movements play a major role in current research, with the "HRTFs" being time-varying !! So there is still much to do. I myself have the pure discovers physical aspects of this topic and is currently writing. about feedback in the auditory system.


- With kind regards, Jens Blauert

 

2018-02-20 11:43 GMT-08:00 Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Dick,
You can do the Google translate this time. It's an interesting mail, also pointing out the impossibility of translating word-by-word between languages.
Best,
Pierre



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:

Re: Who coined the term "head-related transfer function"?

Date:

Tue, 20 Feb 2018 12:01:36 +0100

From:

jens.blauert <jens.blauert@xxxxxx>

To:

Marc Schoenwiesner <marc.schoenwiesner@xxxxxxxxx>, Jens Blauert <jens.blauert@xxxxxx>

 


Hallo Herr Schoenwiesner --
Anbei die Mails, die bei mir eingegangen sind. Wie Dorte Hammershoei richtig bemerkt, sind die Außenohr- Übertragungsfunktionen ein alter Hut. Insbesondere Shaw hat hierzu viel beigetragen. Das Wort "kopfbezogen" ist bei  Stereophonie in Gegensatz zu "raumbezogen" seit langen üblich und semantisch korrekt. Die Übertragungsfunktion zum  Trommelfell aus einer ebenen Welle oder dem Nahfeld einer Quelle  sind aber nicht kopfbezogen, sondern sind eben die  Übertragunsfunktionen des Kopfes (zusammen mit dem Oberkörper). Georg Plenge hatte seinerzeit ein großes Problem mit Dennis  McFadden, der seinen Artikel zur Außerhalb-des-Kopfes-Lokalisiertheit nicht drucken wollte. Ich vermute immer
noch, dass Dennis den falschen Ausdruck HRTf angeregt hat, statt HTF, was besser gewesen wäre. Nun hat sich die Abkürzung  HRTF aber weltweit eingeführt, und insbesondere Amerikaner lieben griffige Abkürzungen. Interessant ist heute eher die  Frage, inwieweit HRTFs, die ja LTI-Systeme vorausetzen, die Sachlage hinreichend genau beschreiben. Zum Beispiel ist die Trommelfellimpedanz aussteuerungsabhängig. Diese ist aber u.a. durch den Mittelohrmuskel-Reflex gesteuert, wo bei dabei sogar kognitives Feedback eine Rolle spielt. Des weiteren spielen in der aktuellen Forschung Kopfbewegungen ein große Rolle, wobei die "HRTFs" dann zeitvariant sind!! Es ist also noch viel zu tun.  Ich selbst habe mich bezüglich der rein 
physikalische Aspekte dieses Themas ausgeklinkt und schreibe z.Zt. über Feedback im auditorischen System.
-- Mit Gruß, Ihr Jens Blauert                                                                          --> Anhang

Am 19.02.2018 um 12:02 schrieb Marc Schoenwiesner:

Lieber Herr Blauert,

 

Bitte leiten Sie die Mail weiter, danke. Meine Suche nach dem Ursprung des Begriffs kommt von einem DFG-Antrag zum Thema an dem ich gerade sitze.

 

Viele Grüße,

Ihr Marc Schönwiesner

 

PS.: Ich hatte Sie ca. 2001 kurz im Labor in Bochum besucht. Einer Ihrer Studenten gab eine Demonstration der dynamischen Raumschallsimulation. Das wissenschaftliche Interesse am Thema ist geblieben, daher der Antrag.

 

========================
Vice Dean Dept of Life Sciences

Professor  of  Neurobiology
Department of Biology
University of Leipzig
Talstrasse 33             __o
04103 Leipzig         _`\<,_
+493419736723    (+) / (+)
& Department of Psychology
University  of  Montreal
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
www.schoenwiesnerlab.ca
www.uni-leipzig.de/~neuro/
http://uni-leipzig.de/~acn/
========================



On 18. Feb 2018, at 12:23, jens.blauert <jens.blauert@xxxxxx> wrote:

 

Hallo Herr Schönwiesner --
Ja, so ist es wohl. Ich habe mich später mal mit Whiteman & Kistler darüber unterhalten,
dass HRTR eigentlich semantisch nicht zutrifft. Sie stimmten zu und wir waren uns einig,
dass Head-transfer function (HTF) besser wäre. Die beiden haben wohl auch versucht,
das den amerikanischen Kollegen zu vermitteln -- aber es war dann wohl schon zu spät. Wer will
der Sache eigentlich jetzt nachgehen? Sind Sie das? Bei mir sind schon mehrere Mails zu dem
Thema eingegangen, die Sie möglicherweise nicht gesehen haben. Soll ich sie zu Ihnen forwarden?
-- Gruß, Ihr Jens Blauert


m 16.02.2018 um 12:11 schrieb Marc Schoenwiesner:

Lieber Herr Blauert,

 

Im JASA paper von 1972 ("On the differences between localization and lateralization") erwähnt Plenge keine HRTF, spricht aber viel über dummy-head transfer functions. Könnte es sein, dass mit HRTF ursprünglich dummy-head transfer functions gemeint waren?

 

 

Viele Grüße aus Leipzig,

Marc Schönwiesner 

 

========================
Vice Dean Dept of Life Sciences

Professor  of  Neurobiology
Department of Biology
University of Leipzig
Talstrasse 33             __o
04103 Leipzig         _`\<,_
+493419736723    (+) / (+)
& Department of Psychology
University  of  Montreal
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
www.schoenwiesnerlab.ca
www.uni-leipzig.de/~neuro/
http://uni-leipzig.de/~acn/
========================



On 16. Feb 2018, at 10:56, Jens Blauert <jens.blauert@xxxxxx> wrote:

 

Gruß, Jens Blauert



-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------

Hallo Pierre --
Es war Georg Plenge (erlebt noch in Berlin) in einem JASA paper ca. 1972.
Wurde von Dennis Mc. Fadden reviewed. Ich hatte in meinem Buch "Außenohr-Übertragungsfunktion"
(external-ear transfer function) verwendet, aber HRTF hat sich durchgesetzt, obwohl falsch.
Was heißt denn "related"? Es IST die Übertragungsfunktion des Kopfes bzw. Ohres! 
Das Plenge-Paper müsste ich mal raussuchen. Die JASA-Bände sind in Bochum.
Es ging dabei um Im-Kopf-Lokalisertheit bei Kunstkopfsignalen -- oder so ähnlich.
-- Gruß, Jens


Am 16.02.2018 um 06:28 schrieb Pierre Divenyi:

Dear Jens,

You should know the answer to this question by Dick Lyon.

Beste Gruesse,
Dein Pierre



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:

Who coined the term "head-related transfer function"?

Date:

Thu, 15 Feb 2018 15:46:44 +0100

From:

Marc Schoenwiesner <marcs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Reply-To:

Marc Schoenwiesner <marcs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To:

AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Dear all,

 

does anyone know who coined the term "head-related transfer function"? The first mention in a paper (as far as I have been able to determine) is by Frederic Wightman and Doris Kistler in 1988, but they write: "...the free-field-to-eardrum transfer function (sometimes called the head-related transfer function, or HRTF)...", which sounds like there must be an earlier source.

 

Best,

Marc

 

========================
Vice Dean Dept of Life Sciences

Professor  of  Neurobiology
Department of Biology
University of Leipzig
Talstrasse 33             __o
04103 Leipzig         _`\<,_
+493419736723    (+) / (+)
& Department of Psychology
University  of  Montreal
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
www.schoenwiesnerlab.ca
www.uni-leipzig.de/~neuro/
http://uni-leipzig.de/~acn/
========================

 

-- Jens BLAUERT, Dr.-Ing., Dr. Tech. h.c. Prof. (em.), Acoustics and EE, Ruhr-Universität Bochum Prof. (adj.), Architectural Acoustics, RPI, Troy NY Postal address: Institute of Communication Acoustics, Ruhr-Universität Bochum, D-44780 Bochum, Germany E-mail: jens.blauert@xxxxxx Internet: http://www.rub.de/ika Phone: +49 234 322 2496 (secretary), ...3480 (direct) Fax: +49 234 321 4165 Home Office: Brehmestraße 22, 13187 BERLIN Phone: +49 30 5551 8259

 

 

 

-- 
Jens BLAUERT, Dr.-Ing., Dr. Tech. h.c.
Prof. (em.), Acoustics and EE, Ruhr-Universität Bochum
Prof. (adj.), Architectural Acoustics, RPI, TROY NY
Institute of Communication Acoustics,
Ruhr-Universität Bochum, D-44780 BOCHUM, Germany
Internet: http://www.rub.de/ika
Phone: +49 234 322 2496 (office)
--
Home office: Brehmestrasse 22, D-13187 BERLIN, Germany
Phone: +49 30 5551 8259, E-mail: jens.blauert@xxxxxx
 
 

 

 

-- 
Jens BLAUERT, Dr.-Ing., Dr. Tech. h.c.
Prof. (em.), Acoustics and EE, Ruhr-Universität Bochum
Prof. (adj.), Architectural Acoustics, RPI, TROY NY
Institute of Communication Acoustics,
Ruhr-Universität Bochum, D-44780 BOCHUM, Germany
Internet: http://www.rub.de/ika
Phone: +49 234 322 2496 (office)
--
Home office: Brehmestrasse 22, D-13187 BERLIN, Germany
Phone: +49 30 5551 8259, E-mail: jens.blauert@xxxxxx