Subject: From: Jont Allen <jba(at)RESEARCH.ATT.COM> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 18:15:12 -0400TO AUDITORY MAILING LIST: Here is a summary of most of the mail that I got back on my summary of Linux and sound cards: For reference, my original message was: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:47:56 -0400 From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> You might look at http://lusk1.mines.edu/hjjou/linux_prg.html for an extensive summary of commercial and free software for Linux. In case you dont already know, Linux is a free Unix that runs on Intel hardware, and is written by people of the Internet, who use it for their work. Unix (in the form of Linux) has come a long way over the years in terms of ease of use. If you liked the NEXT box, you will love LINUX. It takes more effort to install and get it working, but once it is set up, it is much "nicer" than, well you know the alternative. If you are totally happy with your present environment, Linux is not for you. But if you miss that old command line, and a good script now and then, check it out. It typically costs about $40 for a set of CDs, or if you have a lot of free time on your hands, you can download it free from the internet. I switched from a DOS/WIN 3.11 environment to Linux last November, and I for MY needs, Linux is MUCH better. In the past, I was never a big fan of Unix because of small inconsistences and problems, but now that I took the time to learn the Linux shell (BASH) useage, those old problems are gone. Linux comes with all the standard unix commands, a good C++ compiler (GNU), Fortran (f2c), Perl, pkzip (zip), X windows, Ghostview, LaTex, and many different very good MSWORD-like word processing programs. *** SOUND CARD *** driver's source code is also provided. This means that you can have do not need to depend on some commerical vendor for these critical modules. I use LINUX on a notebook PC, and it supports PCMCIA "card services" very nicely. I just plug in a modem, scsi card (to use a cdrom drive), or my ethernet PCMCIA card, and it beeps to let me know it sees the card. I am presently looking at possible 16-bit sound-cards for my PCMCIA slot. DOS and Windows can co-exist on these systems very nicely, if you have the disk space, as you are only a reboot away from these old favorites. I got get help from others on the internet when I ran into problems during the setup. It took me about 1 full day to get X windows working, and a couple of weeks of fiddling with the installation of different programs I wanted, setting up the printer daemon, ethernet setup, modem setup, etc. Once it is working it is literally bug free! The NETACAPE browser is available for Linux (free of course). I have been using Matlab, and I think that it works much better than under the windows environment. I dont do it often, but I can also bring up a DOS prompt from Linux, and run DOS programs. However, DOS isn't very friendly in a multitasking OS like UNIX, and it eats lots of memory cycles when it is running a program. Please, no flames. Jont Allen ==================================================================== Thanks to Dr. Carlo Nervi in Italy, the popular web page about Scientific Applications now has a mirror in Italy to help out people in Europe to retrieve this big service (~97K in total). The original site (in USA) URL is http://lusk1.mines.edu/hjjou/linux_prg.html The new mirrored site URL is http://chpc06.ch.unito.it/linux/linux_prg.html The page actually contains: - - Commercial Scientific Software - - MatLab Alike and Related Packages - - Mathematics and Statistics - - Signal, Communication, Data and Image Processing - - Finite or Boundary Element - - Numerical Analysis - - CAD, Graph and Visualization - - Scientific Data Plotting Packages - - Scientific Data Plotting Libraries - - General Purpose Graphic Libraries - - Word Processing or Typesetting - - X-Window GUI Builder - - Misc Scientific Packages or Libraries - - Other Links Comments, corrections, contributions welcome. Please contact Herng-Jeng Jou at hjjou(at)lusk1.mines.edu - ------------------ Herng-Jeng Jou Engineering Division Colorado School of Mines Golden, CO 80401 hjjou(at)lusk1.mines.edu (303) 384-2119 http://lusk1.mines.edu/hjjou/ =================================================================== From: Robert Irie <irie(at)ai.mit.edu> Date: Tue Jun 11 15:42:33 1996 To: AUDITORY(at)mcgill1.bitnet, jba(at)research.att.com Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary No flames, and thanks for the excellent summary for linux. I too have been trying to decide between linux and the "other" solution, which in my case is Windows NT 3.51. I eventually decided to use Windows NT, though I have used linux and love command lines more than GUIs. The factor that tipped me over to the commercial OS solution is the availability of good development environments and volumes of texts of programming techniques, source code, etc. that is available now for Win32. There is nothing (yet) in the linux/unix world that compares to the ease of use and power of Visual C++ (or Borland, or Symantec, etc.) in terms of project management and source level debugging. Sound card interfacing has stabilized and the MultiMedia extensions are standard in Win32. You can access sound cards at the most simplistic (MCI) level or deal with them at the lowest level. As an OS, Win NT is fully 32 bit and thus is much more stable than 3.11 or 95, though I have managed to crash it a couple of times. It is not really multi-user, and certain features are definitely not as clean or simple as unix, but I am still quite happy with NT. I will be willing to compile a FAQ for sound programming in NT if there is enough interest. Robert Irie From: malcolm(at)interval.com Tue Jun 11 15:52:12 1996 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:46:33 -0700 To: Jont Allen <jba(at)research.att.com> Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary Jont Linux now also runs on Apple hardware. Malcolm >When we met at ARO you told me that Apple was going to do this. >It didnt take long. Thats great. I dont have any religion about >Intel. I dont understand why Apple would port linux to their hardware. >The great thing about the Apple is the software, no? >Explain the reasoning to me. >Jont I think its just a matter of giving people a choice. As you well know, some things are easier on Unix. Some Mac customers feel the same and I think Apple just wants to keep them happy. Besides, the hardware is really solid and I can buy a four processor Mac, but only a two processor Pentium Pro. But then in six years at Apple, I never did really understand them. -- Malcolm From: Larry Feth <feth.1(at)osu.edu> Date: Tue Jun 11 16:47:17 1996 To: Jont Allen <jba(at)research.att.com> Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary Jont, Thanks for the timely review - my new pentium box arrives this week and the only decision I've made is too NOT run windows 95. Are you running the newest version of Linux (2.? I think) Larry From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> Date: Wed Jun 12 11:06:29 1996 To: feth.1(at)osu.edu (Larry Feth) Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary Cc: jba(at)sear.research.att.com I am using the slackware 3.0 version. That has 1.2.13, as the standard version. THe latest version will be out soon, and is 2. something. It is 1.3.99 right now. I dont know the exact release date, but I am sure the linux home page would give an estimate. jont From: Hugh Secker-Walker <hugh(at)hodain.ci.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 16:50:18 -0400 Cc: Jont Allen <jba(at)research.att.com> Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary Reply-To: hugh(at)hodain.ci.net Jont Allen <jba(at)RESEARCH.ATT.COM> wrote: > > In case you dont already know, > Linux is a free Unix that runs on Intel hardware.... Linux runs on: Platform Status Intel very stable distributions Alpha stable distribution Sparc kernel Beta, user-level Alpha PPC port underway Mips port underway Mac port underway > It typically costs about $40 for a set of CDs MicroCenter sells a multi-CD Intel kit for $15. For a general starting point on Linux, try http://www.ssc.com/linux/ > If you liked the NEXT box, you will love LINUX. Er.... If you love NEXTSTEP, you may find Linux tolerable :) Hugh -- Hugh Secker-Walker | hugh(at)hodain.ci.net (NeXTmail ok) | hugh(at)ear-ache.mit.edu From: Judith Brown <brown(at)media.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:26:05 -0400 To: jba(at)research.att.com Subject: Re: Nice linux software summary I've been planning (sometime) to change my HDD and install linux on my compaq aero so was very interested in your msg and pleased to see how well it worked for you. | | I got get help from others on the internet when I ran into problems | during the setup. What groups did you use? thanks and congratulations on getting all this going, Judy From: Regis Rossi Alves Faria <regis(at)LSI.USP.BR> Subject: On Lynux sound support... At my lab we are used to working with SGI machines, as well as with PC's. Unix machines are very stable and more understandable on account of its C-like codes. For a long time now I have been considering installing Lynux on my PC, but lack of audio support disencouraged me... All this activity around Lynux ignited me to reply asking for an important issue: which sound cards are supported under a Lynux running on a PC? I have quickly navigated through some of the links that were posted here, and couldn't find accurate info clearing this up! It seems that Lynux, although more stable than Win 3.1 or 3.11, can't offer much to those working with musical production. Any contrary evidence, please let me know. R.Rossi LSI - Integrated Systems Laboratory Computer Music Group University of Sao Paulo Brazil From: Regis Rossi Alves Faria <regis(at)usp.br> To: Jont Allen <jba(at)research.att.com> Subject: Re: On Lynux sound support... On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Jont Allen wrote: > I'm not sure what you have in mind when you say "working with > musical production."? What card do you want to use? How many > bits, how many cards? When I say 'working with musical production' I mean a couple of (at first sight) different applications, but somehow inter-related: First of all I need an audio digital environment where I can analyse sound patterns, musical phrases, particularly using signal digital processing. This is basically what I need to match my current work/research (I am working with wavelets). Then, employing relevant (of musical value) sonic material I also have intention to produce musical pieces using them, and want also to have a system where I can process, add effects, analyse, synthesize, edit and record the final results. You were right: "working with musical production" sounded incomplete. Thanks for the link. R.Rossi From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> To: regis(at)usp.br Subject: audio Also look at http://www.4front-tech.com/linux.html jont From: Regis Rossi Alves Faria <regis(at)usp.br> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:15:42 -0300 (GRNLNDST) To: Jont Allen <jba(at)research.att.com> Subject: Re: audio Thanks Jont for your kind attention, and for the links. I have also found out some interesting links. I was considering using this OS due to its higher stability, but I've been reading about how low is the interest from professional audio hard/soft manufacturers in supporting drivers and technical guidance... Do you run Linux on your daw? R.Rossi From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:12:24 -0400 To: Regis Rossi Alves Faria <regis(at)usp.br> Subject: Re: audio Yes I run Linux. I dont think it is a problem about the manufacturers. They will come around once they find out what is going on here. This is a little bit of a revolution. Some people would rather stay out of it, for professional reasons. Those that really depend on good hardware and software however, cant deal with the flakey MS software, and they need something that really works. As more people switch (and not everybody will) the manufacturers will see the need to play ball. Many of them dont like the concept of an open system. They hide behind the curtain because they dont have the best product, and that would become clear if people knew what was under the hoods of their products. In my view, there is much more technical software, that works, in the Unix world than in the MS world. This is because Unix has been around longer, and is a true OS. jont From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:50:03 -0400 To: seltzer(at)hogpa.ho.att.com Subject: Re: Linux >Jont, why not just use an SUN/SGI. >Linda Seltzer Hi Linda, It is a matter of cost, and weight. The 4.5 notebook goes with me, and my INDY stays in my office. Portability goes a long way with me. When I come into the office, I put my notebook on the net with an ethernet card. All my mail is taken via the indy. I guess it is about choice. SUN/SGI is not the issue for most people. It is Win95 vs NT. jont ================================================= On a slightly different topic, I thought I would throw this in: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:34:54 -0400 UMSDOS is an option that allows you to share the DOS file system so that the Linux filesystem is part of the 16 bit DOS FAT table, rather than a real unix file system (its own partion). It seems like a nice idea, and it is how I set up my notbook, but I ran into a minor problem, and sometimes the disk access is slow. Jacques(at)solucorp.qc.ca wrote this optional file system. Below is some mail I sent to him re that program. I have not seen this problem on system that dont use the UMSDOS filesystem. From: Jont Allen <jba(at)ipr.research.att.com> To: jacques(at)solucorp.qc.ca Subject: A serious problem -- Help Cc: jba(at)sear.research.att.com I have been using umsdos since November, and I have a problem that is somewhat subtle. I dont know that the problem is UMSDOS, but I suspect it. Here is the problem. When ever I run one big job in an X window, the file system can become very slow, and the disk thrashes about on another program, or a shell command, in another X window. For example, if I run ghostview, and then try to run latex, when it gets to the fonts, it can take up to a min reading in all the font files. If I kill the ghostview, then it only takes seconds reading in those same files. Is UMSDOS my problem? Have you ever heard of this problem before? I have a second Linux system, and it does not have this problem. That system has disk partitions. I fear UMSDOS has a bad flaw. Please help, Jont Allen From: malcolm(at)interval.com (Malcolm Slaney) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:51:24 -0700 To: jba(at)research.att.com Subject: Sound on Linux Jont, I never heard any responses to the guy's question about sound support under Linux. Do you have any information? We're thinking about buying some Pentium Pro machines and would need to have sound support. Thanks. -- Malcolm