Fwd: Re: The Bach Choral Dilemma (Piet Vos )


Subject: Fwd: Re: The Bach Choral Dilemma
From:    Piet Vos  <vos(at)NICI.KUN.NL>
Date:    Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:58:13 +0100

--============_-1167859797==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:27 -0500 >From: Eliot Handelman <eliot(at)generation.net> >X-Accept-Language: en >To: Piet Vos <vos(at)NICI.KUN.NL> >Subject: Re: The Bach Choral Dilemma >Status: > > > >Piet Vos wrote: > >> A nice >> and unfortunately rather underexposed form of the ambiguity in >> question concerns the so called overlap phenomenon. It refers to the >> fact that a certain tone,more precisely interval, (chord, or chord >>constituent) functions both >> as the END of a phrase / theme / motive, and simultaneously as the >> BEGINNING of the next phrase etc. > > > >Another extremely simple example of non-hierarchical structure in music >is the modulation (ie, change of key). A common way to do this is >to go through a zone which is interpretable in both keys (the so-called >"pivot"). A smooth modulation is one where the "pivot" acquires its >identity >as pivot only by reinterpretation, after it's been heard. So there are >in this case two listening processes at work -- one anticipatory (ie, >the sense we will persist in this key) and another retro-interpretative, >each with its own dynamic segmentation or parsing. The interplay of >these >two processes is (if I may just say so apodictically) clearly part of >what >music is all about. > You are right with your modulation example as another ubiquitously present manifestation of nonhierarchical structure in (Western tonal) music. Modulation is a "piece de resistance" for key-finding models: at one hand, such a model has to be stable in face of "pseudomodulations" like chromaticisms and on the other, it should be sensitive to true modulations. The Vos & van Geenen (1996) Parallel processing Key-finding model (PPM) proved rather succesful in dealing with the tonal interpretation dilemma in question. -- Piet G. Vos section Perception NICI, U. Nijmegen P.O.Box 9104 6500 HE Nijmegen NL tel: +31 24 36126 31/20; fax: +31 24 361 60 66; vos(at)nici.kun.nl home-page: http://www.nici.kun.nl/~vos et altissimus humilissimum facere debet --============_-1167859797==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 } --></style><title>Fwd: Re: The Bach Choral Dilemma</title></head><body> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:27 -0500<br> From: Eliot Handelman &lt;eliot(at)generation.net&gt;<br> X-Accept-Language: en<br> To: Piet Vos &lt;vos(at)NICI.KUN.NL&gt;<br> Subject: Re: The Bach Choral Dilemma<br> Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;<br> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br> <br> Piet Vos wrote:<br> <br> &gt; A nice<br> &gt; and unfortunately rather underexposed form of the ambiguity in<br> &gt; question concerns the so called overlap phenomenon. It refers to the<br> &gt; fact that a certain tone,<b>more precisely interval,</b> (chord, or chord constituent) functions both<br> &gt; as the END of a phrase / theme / motive, and simultaneously as the<br> &gt; BEGINNING of the next phrase etc.<br> <br> <br> <br> Another extremely simple example of non-hierarchical structure in music<br> is the modulation (ie, change of key). A common way to do this is<br> to go through a zone which is interpretable in both keys (the so-called<br> &quot;pivot&quot;). A smooth modulation is one where the &quot;pivot&quot; acquires its<br> identity<br> as pivot only by reinterpretation, after it's been heard. So there are<br> in this case two listening processes at work -- one anticipatory (ie,<br> the sense we will persist in this key) and another retro-interpretative,<br> each with its own dynamic segmentation or parsing. The interplay of<br> these<br> two processes is (if I may just say so apodictically) clearly part of<br> what</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>music is all about.<br> </blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>You are right with your modulation example as another ubiquitously present manifestation of nonhierarchical structure in (Western tonal) music. Modulation is a &quot;piece de resistance&quot; for key-finding models: at one hand, such a model has to be stable in face of &quot;pseudomodulations&quot; like chromaticisms and on the other, it should be sensitive to true modulations. The Vos &amp; van Geenen (1996) Parallel processing Key-finding model (PPM) proved rather succesful in dealing with the tonal interpretation dilemma in question.</div> <div>-- <br> Piet G. Vos<br> section Perception NICI, U. Nijmegen<br> P.O.Box 9104<br> 6500 HE Nijmegen NL<br> tel: +31 24 36126 31/20; fax: +31 24 361 60 66; vos(at)nici.kun.nl<br> home-page: http://www.nici.kun.nl/~vos<br> <br> et altissimus humilissimum facere debet<br> <br> </div> </body> </html> --============_-1167859797==_ma============--


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