Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids From: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:47:15 -0600<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE> <P>I probably wouldn't tune them to piano harmonics. I would try to adjust the response of the hearing aids to you're subjective preference, which is ultimately my point. Using your musical history as a guide instead of ignoring would give me a better idea where to start not necessarily where we would finish. What the ultimate fitting would be after a year would still be to your subjective preference regardless of whether you played harp or tuba or nothing at all.<BR><BR></P></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>From: susan allen <susie(at)SHOKO.CALARTS.EDU> <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: susan allen <susie(at)SHOKO.CALARTS.EDU> <DIV></DIV>>To: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Inexpensive hearing aids <DIV></DIV>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:50:03 -0800 <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>As a professional harpist, I would be very confused if my hearing <DIV></DIV>>aid <DIV></DIV>>was tuned to piano harmonics. <DIV></DIV>>Susan Allen <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>I see your point but it does clinically concern me to "not be hung <DIV></DIV>>up on the <DIV></DIV>>specifics" when dealing with clients as we're dealing with specific <DIV></DIV>>problems. <DIV></DIV>>I've seen you state a lot of opinions and you are obviously working <DIV></DIV>>for the good <DIV></DIV>>of your clients. Others on the list have asked you for specific <DIV></DIV>>data and you <DIV></DIV>>have yet to provide that and now when I have asked you specifically <DIV></DIV>>about what <DIV></DIV>>you have stated on the list using specific numbers to justify what <DIV></DIV>>you do you <DIV></DIV>>say the specifics do not matter. Certainly when we treat clients <DIV></DIV>>there is a <DIV></DIV>>clinical apsect to things just as there is a scientific aspect. <DIV></DIV>>When I tune a <DIV></DIV>>piano for someine who is an advanced musician I may not tune a <DIV></DIV>>purely equally <DIV></DIV>>tempered scale because of what they prefer or the instruments they <DIV></DIV>>will play or <DIV></DIV>>the music they use. However, when I do deviate from the accepted <DIV></DIV>>norm I always <DIV></DIV>>have a reason for doing so and can demonstrate that reason to any <DIV></DIV>>other <DIV></DIV>>professional who asks. That duplication of knowledge is the reason <DIV></DIV>>I have <DIV></DIV>>questioned you and attempted to learn something of your methods only <DIV></DIV>>to have you <DIV></DIV>>tell me that I should not deal in specifics. I apologize if you <DIV></DIV>>have been <DIV></DIV>>offended by my questions but I thought they were quite basic rather <DIV></DIV>>than <DIV></DIV>>specific. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Tom <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP, R/D - AU <DIV></DIV>>web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Barbara Reynolds wrote: <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:06:30 -0600 <DIV></DIV>>> From: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)hotmail.com> <DIV></DIV>>> To: g_brennantg(at)TITAN.SFASU.EDU, AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA <DIV></DIV>>> Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids - Consideration of Piano <DIV></DIV>>>harmonics <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> I don't have the equipment to be that exact. I fit on a general <DIV></DIV>>> principle that keeps in mind that I am working with a musician <DIV></DIV>>>with an <DIV></DIV>>> expanded representation for sound that is different than <DIV></DIV>>>non-musician's. <DIV></DIV>>> They may not like the sound of an aid precisely because I haven't <DIV></DIV>>>matched <DIV></DIV>>> a certain band of frequencies as well as I could if I tried to <DIV></DIV>>>shift the <DIV></DIV>>> response of the aid off the more traditional "pure tone" <DIV></DIV>>> recommendations. Pure tones don't occur in nature, so why should <DIV></DIV>>>we be <DIV></DIV>>> married to the idea that people hear the best when we match the <DIV></DIV>>> prescription formulas or the audiogram to a psychological, <DIV></DIV>>>subjective <DIV></DIV>>> system. <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> I've noticed that some people are spend too much time on the <DIV></DIV>>>specifics <DIV></DIV>>> rather than the general priniciple. I'm not concerned with exact <DIV></DIV>>> measurements, but I am concern with the difference in programming <DIV></DIV>>>that <DIV></DIV>>> may be necessary because of vastly different auditory systems <DIV></DIV>>>based on <DIV></DIV>>> environmental or genetic influences. <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> Please don't get hung up on the specifics, see the point for what <DIV></DIV>>>it was. <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> >From: g_brennantg(at)TITAN.SFASU.EDU <DIV></DIV>>> >To: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)HOTMAIL.COM> <DIV></DIV>>> >CC: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA <DIV></DIV>>> >Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids - Consideration of Piano <DIV></DIV>>>harmonics <DIV></DIV>>> >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:39:09 -0600 (CST) <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> >Barb, I'm inpressed if you have instrumentation to fit to exact <DIV></DIV>>>tones <DIV></DIV>>> such as <DIV></DIV>>> >"2048" which is, by the way, a C of 512 which is not a temered C <DIV></DIV>>>so <DIV></DIV>>> would <DIV></DIV>>> >usually be inappropriate to fit as a tempered C is at <DIV></DIV>>> 523.25. Interestingly, <DIV></DIV>>> >this makes your C at 2048 come out at 2093 which is only three <DIV></DIV>>>cycles <DIV></DIV>>> less than <DIV></DIV>>> >being out by the same amount your 2048 would be from the 2000 of <DIV></DIV>>>the <DIV></DIV>>> audiometer. <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> >As an aside, if we multiply the A which is the more commonly <DIV></DIV>>>used not <DIV></DIV>>> for <DIV></DIV>>> >tempering scales, that has your A at 1600. In Europe rather <DIV></DIV>>>than using <DIV></DIV>>> 440 <DIV></DIV>>> >currently many people now use 442 which brings the 1600 to 1608. <DIV></DIV>>> Of <DIV></DIV>>> course, all <DIV></DIV>>> >of this becomes of questionable value either in a porrly <DIV></DIV>>>tempered scale, <DIV></DIV>>> with a <DIV></DIV>>> >piano either flat or sharp in pitch (this applies to other <DIV></DIV>>>instruments <DIV></DIV>>> as well) <DIV></DIV>>> >or with instruments which are not tempered or which are not <DIV></DIV>>>equal <DIV></DIV>>> temered. <DIV></DIV>>> >Since the band spreads on audiometers are standardized to neural <DIV></DIV>>> response etc. <DIV></DIV>>> >al be it sometimes after the fact, I am still left with the <DIV></DIV>>>question of <DIV></DIV>>> how much <DIV></DIV>>> >good this actually does for a client. I also wonder about these <DIV></DIV>>>single <DIV></DIV>>> cycle <DIV></DIV>>> >frequency adjustments to aids. <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> >Thanks. <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> >Tom <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> >Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP, R/D - AU <DIV></DIV>>> >web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> > <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV>>>________________________________________________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>>> Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms ñ all in one place at <DIV></DIV>>>MSN <DIV></DIV>>> Money! <DIV></DIV>>> <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2728??PS=">FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!</a> </html>