Re: Difference between cognition and perception? (Eliot Handelman )


Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?
From:    Eliot Handelman  <eliot(at)GENERATION.NET>
Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:06:55 -0400

Odd Torleiv Furnes wrote: > >> >> THE prime aspect of listening to music is the fact that it has affective >> significance. It's easy to say, "well we must extract such >> significance from >> patterns," but we don't know that for a fact. > > > I agree, for me the meaning of music is its affective value. > Still, I believe that pattern detection (or lack thereof) precedes > affection. > There are a lot of things we don't know for a fact when it comes to > music, > but that pattern detection is prior to affection seems to me to be rather > obvious. > > > Dear Torleiv, We've been on about "basic" things in music, and here's another which I think is fundamental -- movement. The fact that music seems to move for us was noticed by Henri Bergson, but I think has barely, if at all, been followed up on. When I was a child I was overwhelmed by an orchestra concert -- and though musical I couldn't follow the music at all. But I was completely aware of the sound and of the colossal sense of movement all these sounds brought about, the unfolding of an enormous power. I don't think any sort of "pattern detection" is at all relevant here. Rather, I currently suspect this has to do with something like our sense of the kinematics of the real world, whether or not that's an evolutionary adapation, as Shepherd suggested, or merely acquired. As far as I know, no one has ever attempted to theorize this exceptionally important dimension of music. In my theoretical models of music -- involving AI analysis and composing -- kinematic representation is in fact the basic operator. "Parallelization" or what you call "pattern detection" is two levels up. Of course this doesn't prove anything about affect. But my guess about this is that it lies at the kinematic/movement level of sound perception. This might also help get us some ways into the problem of theorizing our affective disposition towards some sounds -- baby crying, dog growling, thunderstorming, mamma soothing, and so on. Another area about which we know nothing. I seem to be coming towards Martin's side on all this! I am not unaware of apparent contradictions in my recent postings regarding the role of cognition in the enjoyment of music. -- eliot


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