Re: Pitch learning (Pierre Divenyi )


Subject: Re: Pitch learning
From:    Pierre Divenyi  <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:33:48 -0800
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--=====================_757206203==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martin, I defer to you, the expert. You should have=20 pointed to your web page http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm Pierre At 10:23 AM 3/2/2007, Martin Braun wrote: >Dear Pierre and others, > >>During my studies some time ago I read in a=20 >>respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave is= missing. > >There must have been a misunderstanding in this.=20 >A gamelan ensemble without the octave as the=20 >backbone of all tuning is a red herring. What=20 >occurs are deviations from the mathematically=20 >exact octave, up to about +/- 30 Cent. In some=20 >gamelan cultures, such as in Bali, octave=20 >deviations are tuned on purpose to reach a=20 >shimmering sound caused by the "beats" resulting from this tuning practice. > >We should also note that all gamelan scales that=20 >have ever been found are fairly well understood=20 >in terms of physics and hearing physiology. Not much mystery here. > >Martin > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Martin Braun >Neuroscience of Music >S-671 95 Kl=E4ssbol >Sweden >web site: http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Divenyi" <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> >To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:49 AM >Subject: Re: Pitch learning > > >>I think that the most challenging instrument to=20 >>any pitch theories is the gamelan ensemble:=20 >>partials produced by each metal bloc are=20 >>inharmonic and the (supposed) fundamental=20 >>frequencies of the bloc series define an=20 >>inharmonic scale that varies from gamelan to=20 >>gamelan, except that they never include simple=20 >>harmonic ratios. During my studies some time=20 >>ago I read in a respected source that there are=20 >>gamelans in which even the octave is missing. >> >>Pierre --=====================_757206203==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <body> Martin, <br><br> I defer to you, the expert. You should have pointed to your web page <a href=3D"http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm" eudora=3D"autourl= "> http://</a><font size=3D2>web.telia.com/~u57011259/<b>pelog</b> <a href=3D"http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm" eudora=3D"autourl= "> _main.htm</a></font> <br><br> Pierre<br><br> At 10:23 AM 3/2/2007, Martin Braun wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Dear Pierre and= others,<br><br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">During my studies some time a= go I read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave is missing.</blockquote><br> There must have been a misunderstanding in this. A gamelan ensemble without the octave as the backbone of all tuning is a red herring. What occurs are deviations from the mathematically exact octave, up to about +/- 30 Cent. In some gamelan cultures, such as in Bali, octave deviations are tuned on purpose to reach a shimmering sound caused by the &quot;beats&quot; resulting from this tuning practice.<br><br> We should also note that all gamelan scales that have ever been found are fairly well understood in terms of physics and hearing physiology. Not much mystery here.<br><br> Martin<br><br> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Martin Braun<br> Neuroscience of Music<br> S-671 95 Kl=E4ssbol<br> Sweden<br> web site: <a href=3D"http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm" eudora=3D"autourl"> http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm</a><br><br> <br><br> ----- Original Message ----- From: &quot;Pierre Divenyi&quot; &lt;pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx&gt;<br> To: &lt;AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx&gt;<br> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:49 AM<br> Subject: Re: Pitch learning<br><br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">I think that the most challenging instrument to any pitch theories is the gamelan ensemble: partials produced by each metal bloc are inharmonic and the (supposed) fundamental frequencies of the bloc series define an inharmonic scale that varies from gamelan to gamelan, except that they never include simple harmonic ratios. During my studies some time ago I read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave is missing.<br><br> Pierre<br> </blockquote></blockquote></body> </html> --=====================_757206203==.ALT--


This message came from the mail archive
http://www.auditory.org/postings/2007/
maintained by:
DAn Ellis <dpwe@ee.columbia.edu>
Electrical Engineering Dept., Columbia University