AW: Pitch learning ("Werner A. Deutsch" )


Subject: AW: Pitch learning
From:    "Werner A. Deutsch"  <Werner.Deutsch@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Fri, 2 Mar 2007 23:14:11 +0100
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

Dear Pierre, I agree, gamelan tones being a challenging pitch issue! I remember an experimetal study Franz Foedermayr and me performed in 1986 (Tonhöhe versus Frequenz, Musicologica Austriaca, 6 -1986) on pengisep and pengumbang Balineese gamelan instruments and perceived pitch. Analysing separated tones of both instruments tuned to 1220 cents and/or 1196 cents and the "slendro tuning" close to 70 cents have been considered. Moreover it had to be put into consideration the play of fast high pitched figuration and long lasting (drone like) beats of low pitch tones produces separated streams. Out of several tested pitch perception models Terhadt's approach performed best, because it predicts probabilities of pitches for the composition of arbitrary spectral components. Nevertheless his model was not intended to predict the pitches perceived over the duration of separated sounds or in dependence of the context of adjacent tones. Best, Werner ------------------------------------------------------------ Acoustics Research Institute Austrian Academy of Sciences Reichsratsstrasse 17 A-1010 Wien Tel. 43(1) 4277 29500 Fax: 43(1) 4277 9295 Email: Werner.Deutsch@xxxxxxxx http://www.kfs.oeaw.ac.at -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Im Auftrag von Pierre Divenyi Gesendet: Freitag, 2. März 2007 20:34 An: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Betreff: Re: Pitch learning Martin, I defer to you, the expert. You should have pointed to your web page http:// <http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm> web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog _main.htm <http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm> Pierre At 10:23 AM 3/2/2007, Martin Braun wrote: Dear Pierre and others, During my studies some time ago I read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave is missing. There must have been a misunderstanding in this. A gamelan ensemble without the octave as the backbone of all tuning is a red herring. What occurs are deviations from the mathematically exact octave, up to about +/- 30 Cent. In some gamelan cultures, such as in Bali, octave deviations are tuned on purpose to reach a shimmering sound caused by the "beats" resulting from this tuning practice. We should also note that all gamelan scales that have ever been found are fairly well understood in terms of physics and hearing physiology. Not much mystery here. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Braun Neuroscience of Music S-671 95 Klässbol Sweden web site: http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm <http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Divenyi" <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:49 AM Subject: Re: Pitch learning I think that the most challenging instrument to any pitch theories is the gamelan ensemble: partials produced by each metal bloc are inharmonic and the (supposed) fundamental frequencies of the bloc series define an inharmonic scale that varies from gamelan to gamelan, except that they never include simple harmonic ratios. During my studies some time ago I read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave is missing. Pierre


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