Subject: Absolute pitch discussion From: Henkjan Honing <honing@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:40:26 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>More on AP: http://www.musiccognition.nl/blog/2007/09/ap-you-either-have-it-or- not.html hh On 6 Sep 2007, at 17:57, Kevin Austin wrote: > Hi > > Sorry, it's probably not a very scientific term, but it is an idea > well known among musicians being an ability to sing or recognize a > note. I have heard it called "body tone" as well. I used to teach > two versions of it in class, one being the "D" in the middle of the > piano, and the other in the form of having people sing and > 'register' their "lowest" comfortable note. > > At G an 11th below middle C, in the middle of the day, my singing > voice is 'clear', but not "full", at F#, my voice is no longer > "clear" or "full". Fullness comes into my voice around A or Bb. > Given a piece, I will sing my lowest comfortable note (around G) > and then compare it to some given note in the piece I am listening > to. I then continue on with my relative pitch to work out harmony, > modulations etc, or in the case of (for example) Berg songs, I use > my 'abstracted intervals' to hear where I am. > > I know a singer who carries a tuning fork in her purse, and in > order to 'hear' and A, she reaches in and touches it, and her aural > memory produces an oral memory. In doing testing of string > applicants who claim not to have AP, I ask them to pretend hold > their instrument and play the A (or E on guitar), and then to sing > the note. Many can do this but hadn't realized it. I also call it > physiological pitch. I'm sure that researchers have much better > terms for these things, I just don't know the names of things any > more. > > > Best > > Kevin > > > >> Kevin, >> >> I am sorry for my ignorance, but I have never heard about 'reference >> pitch'. I know about relative and absolute pitch, but not >> 'reference'. >> What is that? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Arturo >> >>> Thanks for the ideas. >>> >>> >>> My experience, not based on lab research but rather the >>> concentrated >>> individual testing of may hundreds of music students over a >>> period of a >>> decade is that there is not 'real' continuum. There are a number of >>> musicians who lodge a reference note in their mind (such as the >>> violinist >>> who can sing A, D, G and E in the octave of the violin strings) >>> but do not >>> demonstrate strong octave equivalence, and it is my >>> understanding from >>> Diana's work that AP is octave equivalent. >>> >>> >>> My experience is that there are two groups, AP, and non-AP. The >>> non-AP have skills ranging from nil (poor pitch discrimination), >>> through >>> varying degrees of relative pitch, and a group of 'reference note' >>> hearers. The reference note hearers may or may not have good >>> relative >>> pitch. >>> >>> In my experience with people 17 to 77, AP cannot be taught or >>> trained. Reference pitch can be. I used to start every class >>> with the >>> singing of D above middle C. Towards the end of each year (2 - 3 >>> classes >>> per year for over 20 years), one day I would have the class sit and >>> without playing, I would ask them to imagine themselves walking >>> into class >>> and preparing to sing the "D". >>> >>> When everyone was settled, I would play a note on the piano, and >>> ask >>> if it was "the D". I would get up to 80% "correct" responses. In >>> some cases >>> when I would play (for example) the Eb, some people would say, >>> "That's too >>> high." They would work out how much too high (a minor second), >>> but they >>> did not "hear" Eb, as my AP students did. >>> >>> I found virtuoso performers with dreadful relative pitch, but upon >>> their having "learned" the melody, were fine. They couldn't find a >>> descending major sixth without singing a descending minor scale >>> out loud. >>> >>> My 'non-lab' testing cycle was a 10-15 minute individual >>> examination >>> six times per year, which amounts to up to 50 hours per year for >>> a decade. >>> >>> I don't have a control group and the only documentation I have >>> is my >>> database of the grading of the exams, and the limiting factor of >>> course, as >>> in any such experiment / test, is the limitations on my own pitch >>> perception, and I guess you just have to take my word that I >>> have ok >>> relative pitch. My reference tones are all a fourth off. >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> >> > Kevin >> >> __________________________________________________ >> >> Arturo Camacho >> PhD Candidate >> Computer and Information Science and Engineering >> University of Florida >> >> E-mail: acamacho@xxxxxxxx >> Web page: www.cise.ufl.edu/~acamacho >> __________________________________________________