Subject: Re: The ear dynamically adapting frequency response From: "Strickland, Elizabeth A" <estrick@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:35:38 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C987B8.2C8E61C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Neal Viemeister or Sid Bacon are monitoring this list, they can tell = you that they have seen this rapid adaptation at high frequencies in = psychophysical experiments, in normal-hearing people. =20 Beth Strickland =20 From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Jos=E9 Ignacio = Alc=E1ntara Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:25 PM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: The ear dynamically adapting frequency response =20 Not wishing to be pedantic, but I doubt very much whether any mobile = phone transducer would have a useable frequency range extending to 16 = kHz. But then again, 8 kHz would work just as well for presbyacustic = adults... =20 And as far as I recall, significant adaption in hearing is relatively = rare, so much so that it used to be one of the diagnostic signs of = retrocochlear (e.g. acoustic neuroma) pathology. =20 Jose =20 On 5 Feb 2009, at 17:16, Eric Jacobs wrote: This is completely anecdotal... =20 As you know, kids like to put high frequency (16 kHz) ring tones on = their cell phones so that adults (ie. authority figures) with = compromised hearing cannot hear the phone ring. =20 Yesterday, my son asked "why is it that I can hear the first ring = loudly, but by the third or fourth ring I cannot hear it anymore?" =20 I didn't have an answer, of course. But if you'd like me to investigate = the phenomenon further with him, I can do that. This isn't horribly = scientific, of course, but maybe useful. =20 Eric -----Original Message----- From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Behalf Of Mark Fletcher Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:48 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: The ear dynamically adapting frequency response Dear List =20 I am investigating the possibility that the ear dynamically adapts its = frequency response dependant on environment, for example, to suppress = noise. My current thinking is that the mechanism for this adaptation is = in the expanding and contracting of the outer hair cells, restricting or = exaggerating movement of the inner hair cells at different frequencies = depending on the stimuli. I would be grateful for any input anyone may = have regarding this idea. =20 Thanks, =20 Mark =20 =09 ________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail just got better. Find out more! = <http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/hotmail.aspx>=20 =20 _______________________________________ =20 Jos=E9 Ignacio Alc=E1ntara, M.A., Ph.D. =20 University Lecturer Department of Experimental Psychology University of Cambridge Downing Street Cambridge CB2 3EB =20 Fellow and Tutor, Director of Studies in Natural Sciences (Biological) Fitzwilliam College Storey's Way Cambridge CB3 0DG =20 Phone: 44 (0)1223 764412 (Department) 44 (0)1223 477170 (College) Fax: 44 (0)1223 333564 =20 Web: http://www.psychol.cam.ac.uk/lara http://hearing.psychol.cam.ac.uk ________________________________________ =20 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C987B8.2C8E61C9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Helvetica; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Helvetica; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:"\0027Times New Roman\0027"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Webdings; panose-1:5 3 1 2 1 5 9 6 7 3;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.apple-style-span {mso-style-name:apple-style-span;} span.apple-converted-space {mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;} span.apple-tab-span {mso-style-name:apple-tab-span;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @xxxxxxxx Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>If Neal Viemeister or Sid Bacon are monitoring this list, = they can tell you that they have seen this rapid adaptation at high = frequencies in psychophysical experiments, in normal-hearing = people.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Beth Strickland<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AUDITORY - = Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <b>On Behalf Of = </b>Jos=E9 Ignacio Alc=E1ntara<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:25 PM<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: The ear dynamically adapting frequency = response<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Not wishing to be pedantic, but I doubt very much = whether any mobile phone transducer would have a useable frequency range = extending to 16 kHz. But then again, 8 kHz would work just as well for = presbyacustic adults...<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>And as far as I recall, significant adaption in = hearing is relatively rare, so much so that it used to be one of the diagnostic = signs of retrocochlear (e.g. acoustic neuroma) pathology.<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Jose<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>On 5 Feb 2009, at 17:16, Eric Jacobs = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:blue'>This is completely anecdotal...</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:blue'>As you know, kids like to put high frequency (16 kHz) ring = tones on their cell phones so that adults (ie. authority figures) with = compromised hearing cannot hear the phone ring.</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:blue'>Yesterday, my son asked "why is it that I can hear the = first ring loudly, but by the third or fourth ring I cannot hear it = anymore?"</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:blue'>I didn't have an answer, of course. But if you'd like = me to investigate the phenomenon further with him, I can do that. This = isn't horribly scientific, of course, but maybe useful.</span><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:blue'>Eric</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original = Message-----<br> <b>From:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>AUDITORY - = Research in Auditory Perception [<a = href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<= /a>]<b>On Behalf Of<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></b>Mark = Fletcher<br> <b>Sent:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, = February 05, 2009 3:48 AM<br> <b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br>= <b>Subject:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>The ear dynamically adapting frequency response</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Dear List</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>I am investigating the = possibility that the ear dynamically adapts its frequency response dependant on environment, for example, to suppress noise. My current thinking is that = the mechanism for this adaptation is in the expanding and contracting of the = outer hair cells, restricting or exaggerating movement of the inner hair cells = at different frequencies depending on the stimuli. I would be grateful for = any input anyone may have regarding this idea.</span><span = style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Thanks,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Mark</span><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span>= </p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= > <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black'>Windows Live Hotmail just got better.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/hotmail.= aspx" target=3D"_new">Find out more!</a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>_______________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p= > </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>Jos=E9 Ignacio Alc=E1ntara, M.A., = Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>University Lecturer<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"'Times New Roman'","serif";color:black'>Department of = Experimental Psychology</span></i></span><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"'Times New Roman'","serif";color:black'>University of = Cambridge</span></i></span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black= '><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"'Times New Roman'","serif";color:black'>Downing = Street</span></i></span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black= '><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"'Times New Roman'","serif";color:black'>Cambridge CB2 = 3EB</span></i></span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black= '><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>Fellow and Tutor,<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>Director of Studies in Natural Sciences = (Biological)<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"'Times New Roman'","serif";color:black'>Fitzwilliam = College</span></i></span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black= '><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 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