Subject: Re: SOAEs and tinnitus From: David Smith <smithd@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:01:11 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1254945671140420 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would characterize my hearing as very good.=A0=A0 I listen to music to help me go to sleep.=A0 During the past few years I usually experience, after a few minutes of listening,=A0 SOAE's in my left ear when it is occluded by the pillow.=A0 The pulses, are loud enough to be easily recorded, and correspond roughly to voice band onsets in my right ear.=A0=A0 The effect goes away when I take my head off the pillow and the music is presented at more or less equal volumes to both ears. So some sort of bilateral (if this is the right word) mechanism exists. Quite likely this is causes the cricket type of tinnitus. Information correlating tinnitus with band specific lateral hearing differences, and tuned amplification, so that both ears get similar signals, may be useful. Dave Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Gygi" To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: [AUDITORY] SOAEs and tinnitus Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:11:40 +0000 The problem is that there are also people (e.g., myself) who have tinnitus but exhibit no SOAEs.=A0 Further, SOAE's don't really "sound" like tinnitus - there are several different "sounds" of tinnitus, suchas ringing, "crickets" and very rarely a low frequency hum.=A0 I have crickets myself.=A0 This is the problem, as perviously stated, with grouping all disorders that kind of behave like tinnitus under one heading, when they might have several different etiologies. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Bell [mailto:andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:43 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Technique can pinpoint tinnitus Matt and list: Thanks for pointer to Ceranic et al (1998), a paper which gives clear evidence that spontaneous otoacoustic emissions (SOAEs) and tinnitus are closely related. If SOAEs sound like tinnitus and behave like tinnitus, isn't it likely that they are (in some respect) tinnitus? If we are aiming to pinpoint tinnitus, then SOAEs offer the most direct tool, and Ceranic et al. support this idea. Their Table 5 shows that patients with head injury and tinnitus displayed 4.4 SOAEs per ear, compared to 1.7 with normals and 0.25 with those having head injury without tinnitus. So did the head injury damage the cochlea and generate a tinnitus sensation (via afferent pathways), or did the injury damage the brain, which responded by sending a signal to the cochlea (via efferent pathways)? As you say, that question is still very much open, but it would definitely repay some attention. Andrew. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew Bell Research School of Biology (RSB) The Australian National University Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia T: +61 2 6125 5145 F: +61 2 6125 3808 andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Further, tinnitus can also be induced by head injury [6]. In > this case, it is possible that the inner ear is damaged and > this causes a peripheral type of tinnitus, which again is a > cochlear amplifier dysfunction. Until we can successfully > trace this cause and develop methods such as cellular > regeneration possibly using stem cells - we can tinker and > experiment using all sorts of procedures to quash the > problem, but they will never be as sophisticated as actually > repairing the biology. > > > > [6] @xxxxxxxx{ceranic:1998, > author =3D {Ceranic, B.J. and Prasher, D.K. and Raglan, E. > and Luxon, L.M.}, > title =3D {{Tinnitus after head injury: evidence from > otoacoustic emissions}}, > journal =3D {Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery \& Psychiatry}, > year =3D {1998}, > volume =3D {65}, > pages =3D {523--529}, > number =3D {4}, > publisher =3D {BMJ} > } > --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! --_----------=_1254945671140420 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <div> <div> <br><br>I would characterize my hearing as very good. <br><br>I= listen to music to help me go to sleep. During the past few years I = usually experience, after a <br>few minutes of listening, SOAE's in m= y left ear when it is occluded by the pillow. The pulses, are loud <b= r>enough to be easily recorded, and correspond roughly to voice band onsets= in my right ear. The effect <br>goes away when I take my head = off the pillow and the music is presented at more or less equal volumes to = both ears.<br><br>So some sort of bilateral (if this is the right word) mec= hanism exists. Quite likely this is causes the cricket type of tinnitus.<br= >Information correlating tinnitus with band specific lateral hearing differ= ences, and tuned amplification, so that both ears<br>get similar signals, m= ay be useful. <br><br>Dave Smith<br><br><br><br><br><br> <br> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: = 5px; padding-left: 5px;">----- Original Message -----<br> From: "Brian Gygi" <bgygi@xxxxxxxx><br> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> Subject: [AUDITORY] SOAEs and tinnitus<br> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:11:40 +0000<br> <br> <div> <br>The problem is that there are also people (e.g., myself) who have= tinnitus but exhibit no SOAEs. Further, SOAE's don't really "sound" = like tinnitus - there are several different "sounds" of tinnitus, suchas ri= nging, "crickets" and very rarely a low frequency hum. I have cricket= s myself. This is the problem, as perviously stated, with grouping al= l disorders that kind of behave like tinnitus under one heading, when they = might have several different etiologies.<br><br>Brian <br><br></div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5= px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">= -----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Andrew Bell [mailto:andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx= ANU.EDU.AU]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:43 AM<br><b>To:</= b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Technique can pinpoint t= innitus<br><br></font>Matt and list: Thanks for pointer to Ceranic et al (1998), a paper which gives clear evidence that spontaneous otoacoustic emissions (SOAEs) and tinnitus are closely related. If SOAEs sound like tinnitus and behave like tinnitus, isn't it likely that they are (in some respect) tinnitus? If we are aiming to pinpoint tinnitus, then SOAEs offer the most direct tool, and Ceranic et al. support this idea. Their Table 5 shows that patients with head injury and tinnitus displayed 4.4 SOAEs per ear, compared to 1.7 with normals and 0.25 with those having head injury without tinnitus. So did the head injury damage the cochlea and generate a tinnitus sensation (via afferent pathways), or did the injury damage the brain, which responded by sending a signal to the cochlea (via efferent pathways)? As you say, that question is still very much open, but it would definitely repay some attention. Andrew. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew Bell Research School of Biology (RSB) The Australian National University Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia T: +61 2 6125 5145 F: +61 2 6125 3808 andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Further, tinnitus can also be induced by head injury [6]. In > this case, it is possible that the inner ear is damaged and > this causes a peripheral type of tinnitus, which again is a > cochlear amplifier dysfunction. Until we can successfully > trace this cause and develop methods such as cellular > regeneration possibly using stem cells - we can tinker and > experiment using all sorts of procedures to quash the > problem, but they will never be as sophisticated as actually > repairing the biology. > > > > [6] @xxxxxxxx{ceranic:1998, > author =3D {Ceranic, B.J. and Prasher, D.K. and Raglan, E. > and Luxon, L.M.}, > title =3D {{Tinnitus after head injury: evidence from > otoacoustic emissions}}, > journal =3D {Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery \& Psychiatry}, > year =3D {1998}, > volume =3D {65}, > pages =3D {523--529}, > number =3D {4}, > publisher =3D {BMJ} > } > </blockquote></bgygi@xxxxxxxx></blockquote> </div> </div> <BR> --=20 <div><b>An Excellent Credit Score is 750</b><br> <a href=3D"http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.fr= eecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=3Dhomepage62&sc=3D669615&bcd= =3DFOOTER5 " target=3D"_blank"> <b>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!</b></a><= /div> --_----------=_1254945671140420--