Subject: Re: Sound head of the 'Moviola' From: ita katz <itakatz@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 09:47:03 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--0016e6da98be640009049887c694 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks for the links. Do you have a reference (or a short explanation) for the variable area encoding? I looked for it on the web, but still some aspects are not clear: the "RCA-Photophone" entry in Wikipedia states: "variable-area" film exposure system, in which the modulated area (width) > corresponded to the amplitude of the audio signal" > But the amplitude does not carry all the information needed to recreate the sound. Similarly, the "Sound-on-Film" entry states: stereo variable-area<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stereo_variable-area&action=edit&redlink=1>(SVA) recording, encoding a two-channel audio signal as a pair of lines > running parallel with the film's direction of travel through the projector. > The lines change area (grow broader or narrower) depending on the magnitude > of the signal. Again, what encodes the frequency/phase? Thank you Ita. On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Kevin Austin <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx>wrote: > > http://www.amazon.com/Norman-McLaren-Masters-Grant-Munro/dp/B000H7J9OY > The McLaren DVD set (7 DVDs). > There is also information on the techniques used. > > A particular example: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqz_tx1-xd4 > and more on YouTube > > As I understand it, most [all?] of his work was done with variable area > optical tracks (as distinct from variable density). > > > Kevin > > > > On 2010, Dec 28, at 2:02 PM, ita katz wrote: > > Hi Sam and thanks for the details. > > Generally I am interested in both, but particularly I am interested in the > work of the Canadian animator Norman Mclaren, who used the Moviola to > synthesize musical soundtrack to his animation. I plan to investigate the > sound production mechanism of the optical pickup (since I find the sound > very interesting), and I guess it is mainly influenced by the coupling to > the electronic circuit and the electronic circuit itself, producing the > unique 'analog' feel of the sound. So any further information (in addition > to your suggestions) in that direction would be helpful. > > Ita. > > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Sam Jelfs <JelfsS1@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Ita, >> >> Are you interested in the Moviola particularly, or optical audio in >> general? If the latter, then >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Optical has a good basic >> intro to how traditional optical-encoded amplitude modulation works, as well >> as more modern Dolby Digital / SDDS / DTS digital-optical audio encoding. >> You may find more luck searching using terms such as "sound-on-film". >> >> Sound Recording Practice (ed. John Borwick) ( >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Recording-Practice-John-Borwick/dp/0198166087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293560292&sr=8-1) >> has a section on the technology used in audio reproduction for film as well, >> might be worth looking in your library for. >> Sam Jelfs >> >> >> *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto: >> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx *On Behalf Of *ita katz >> *Sent:* 28 December 2010 15:55 >> *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >> *Subject:* [AUDITORY] Sound head of the 'Moviola' >> >> Hello, >> >> I am looking for information about the optical sound head of the >> movie-editing machine called 'Moviola'. >> http://www.alangordon.com/sales/used_equipment/editing_equipment/moviola_ud-20-cs.html >> >> Specifically I would like to know about the working principle, how the >> visual marks are sonified using the optical head. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ita. >> > > --0016e6da98be640009049887c694 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the links.<br><br>Do you have a reference (or a= short explanation) for the variable area encoding? I looked for it on the = web, but still some aspects are not clear: the "RCA-Photophone" e= ntry in Wikipedia states: <br> <br><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid = rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">"variabl= e-area" film exposure system, in which the modulated area (width) corr= esponded to the amplitude of the audio signal"<br> </blockquote><div><br>But the amplitude does not carry all the information = needed to recreate the sound. Similarly, the "Sound-on-Film" entr= y states:<br><br><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-lef= t: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DStereo_variable-area= &action=3Dedit&redlink=3D1" class=3D"new" title=3D"Stereo variable-= area (page does not exist)">stereo variable-area</a> (SVA) recording, encoding a two-channel audio signal as a pair of lines running parallel with the film's direction of travel through the=20 projector. The lines change area (grow broader or narrower) depending on the magnitude of the signal.</blockquote><div><br>Again, what encodes the = frequency/phase?<br><br>Thank you<br><br>Ita. <br></div></div><br><div clas= s=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Kevin Austin <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx">kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx= otron.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=3D"wor= d-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.amazon.com/N= orman-McLaren-Masters-Grant-Munro/dp/B000H7J9OY" target=3D"_blank">http://w= ww.amazon.com/Norman-McLaren-Masters-Grant-Munro/dp/B000H7J9OY</a></div> <div>The McLaren DVD set (7 DVDs).</div><div>There is also information on t= he techniques used.</div><div><br></div><div>A particular example:</div><di= v><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJqz_tx1-xd4" target=3D"_blank= ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJqz_tx1-xd4</a></div> <div>and more on YouTube</div><div><br></div><div>As I understand it, most = [all?] of his work was done with variable area optical tracks (as distinct = from variable density).</div><div><br></div><font color=3D"#888888"><div> <br></div><div>Kevin</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br></font><div><di= v class=3D"im"><div>On 2010, Dec 28, at 2:02 PM, ita katz wrote:</div><br><= /div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"im">Hi Sam an= d thanks for the details.<br> <br>Generally I am interested in both, but particularly I am interested in = the work of the Canadian animator Norman Mclaren, who used the Moviola to s= ynthesize musical soundtrack to his animation. I plan to investigate the so= und production mechanism of the optical pickup (since I find the sound very= interesting), and I guess it is mainly influenced by the coupling to the e= lectronic circuit and the electronic circuit itself, producing the unique &= #39;analog' feel of the sound. So any further information (in addition = to your suggestions) in that direction would be helpful.<br> <br>Ita.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Tue, = Dec 28, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Sam Jelfs <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:= JelfsS1@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">JelfsS1@xxxxxxxx</a>></spa= n> wrote:<br> </div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: = 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left:= 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-GB"> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Ita,</span></p= ><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Are you interested in the Moviola particularly, or optical audio in general? If= the latter, then =A0</span><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projec= tor#Optical" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color: windowtext;">http://en= .wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Optical</span></a> has a good basic intro to how traditional optical-encoded amplitude modulat= ion works, as well as more modern Dolby Digital / SDDS / DTS digital-optical au= dio encoding. You may find more luck searching using terms such as "sound-on-film".</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sound Recording Practi= ce (ed. John Borwick) (<a href=3D"http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Recording-P= ractice-John-Borwick/dp/0198166087/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1293560= 292&sr=3D8-1" target=3D"_blank">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Recording= -Practice-John-Borwick/dp/0198166087/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D12935= 60292&sr=3D8-1</a>) has a section on the technology used in audio reproduction for film as well= , might be worth looking in your library for.</p><div>Sam Jelfs</div><div>=A0= </div> <div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181,= 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D= "font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDIT= ORY@xxxxxxxx</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ita katz<br> <b>Sent:</b> 28 December 2010 15:55<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AU= DITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [AUDITORY] Sound head of the 'Moviola'</span></p></= div><div><div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<br> <br> I am looking for information about the optical sound head of the movie-edit= ing machine called 'Moviola'. <a href=3D"http://www.alangordon.com/sale= s/used_equipment/editing_equipment/moviola_ud-20-cs.html" target=3D"_blank"= >http://www.alangordon.com/sales/used_equipment/editing_equipment/moviola_u= d-20-cs.html</a><br> <br> Specifically I would like to know about the working principle, how the visu= al marks are sonified using the optical head.<br> <br> Thank you,<br> <br> Ita.</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --0016e6da98be640009049887c694--