Re: Loud music (James Johnston )


Subject: Re: Loud music
From:    James Johnston  <James.Johnston@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:50:03 -0700
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--_000_A3A915D4968D3547B15269C244643B620A6EE489ECEXCHANGE2K7dt_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Please add in your list of emotional of hearing: "bad emotions about music compression and lack of harmonics" General answer from the companies of music and hearing aid systems is that = "younger people" (not against your age James) are already adapted on these = compressions, 3D sounds etc. and others are just too old to accept. Are there any comparable statistics about the acceptance of MP3 sounds rela= ted to age? --- Well, let's see. One of the creators of MP3, for instance (that would be m= e) thinks that a lot of the codecs are seriously outdated, and the "swirlie= s" drive me nuts. I am quite sure that when I teach some youngster how to h= ear them, suddenly they hate them with a passion. Ditto the 'essing' due t= o hypercompression, multiband compression, etc. "adapted" in this case would be a very high-level adaptation, and one that = seems quite fleeting, given the proper exposure to less hypercompression, l= ess low-rate coding (I'm not talking about 160kb/s stereo AAC or DTS, or WM= A Pro here, please, but the "low rate" extensions) in a setting that teache= s them what it was intended to sound like. Many people think 'oh, that's br= ight!' until they learn what else it is. Then "thud". Down goes the rating. So, any adaptation you're talking about is not an "adaptation", it is a pre= ference, and it is one that is distinctly REVERSABLE with training or exper= ience. This is much like the original MP3 stuff, where we heard "oh, 64 kb/s is PE= RFECT" (referring to stereo). Now, the same listeners can't stand 192kb/s, = because they have LEARNED THE ARTIFACTS. Taking people with less experience and asking them for preference is, of co= urse, always a valid thing to do, but bear in mind that the same people wil= l learn with experience. What I find telling in this group is that at the same time you're telling m= e, in effect, that I'm a pointless old fogie, most of the people here are d= issing rock music and seem to like Bach, never mind things like F&F in C we= re that day's version of Rock Music. Geeze. I think I'll dig up some Led Zep, and play it now. One old guy checking out= of email, and "bring it on home". jj Notice: This message and any included attachments are intended only for the use of = the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged or confidenti= al. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any= dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly p= rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy= the original message and any copies or printouts hereof. --_000_A3A915D4968D3547B15269C244643B620A6EE489ECEXCHANGE2K7dt_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <html dir=3D"ltr"><head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18939"> <style title=3D"owaParaStyle"><!--P { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px } --></style> </head> <body bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" ocsi=3D"x"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"></font><br> &nbsp;</div> <div></div> <div>Please add in your list of emotional of hearing:<br> &quot;bad emotions about music compression and lack of harmonics&quot;<br> <br> General answer from the companies of music and hearing aid systems is that = &quot;younger people&quot; (not against your age James) are already adapted= on these compressions, 3D sounds etc. and others are just too old to accep= t.<br> Are there any comparable statistics about the acceptance of MP3 sounds rela= ted to age?<br> <br> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">---</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">Well, let's see.&nbsp; One of the cre= ators of MP3, for instance (that would be me) thinks that a lot of the code= cs are seriously outdated, and the &quot;swirlies&quot; drive me nuts. I am= quite sure that when I teach some youngster how to hear them, suddenly they hate them with a passion.&nbsp; Ditto the 'essing= ' due to hypercompression, multiband compression, etc.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">&quot;adapted&quot; in this case woul= d be a very high-level adaptation, and one that seems quite fleeting, given= the proper exposure to less hypercompression, less low-rate coding (I'm no= t talking about 160kb/s stereo AAC or DTS, or WMA Pro here, please, but the &quot;low rate&quot; extensions) in a settin= g that teaches them what it was intended to sound like. Many people think '= oh, that's bright!' until they learn what else it is. Then &quot;thud&quot;= . Down goes the rating.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">So, any adaptation you're talking abo= ut is not an &quot;adaptation&quot;, it is a preference, and it is one that= is distinctly REVERSABLE with training or experience.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">This is much like the original MP3 st= uff, where we heard &quot;oh, 64 kb/s is PERFECT&quot; (referring to stereo= ). Now, the same listeners can't stand 192kb/s, because they have LEARNED T= HE ARTIFACTS.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">Taking people with less experience an= d asking them for preference is, of course, always a valid thing to do, but= bear in mind that the same people will learn with experience.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">What I find telling in this group is = that at the same time you're telling me, in effect, that I'm a pointless ol= d fogie, most of the people here are dissing rock music and seem to like Ba= ch, never mind things like F&amp;F in C were that day's version of Rock Music.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">Geeze.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">I think I'll dig up some Led Zep, and= play it now. One old guy checking out of email, and &quot;bring it on home= &quot;.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">jj</font></div> <DIV> Notice:<BR> This message and any included attachments are intended only for the use of = the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged or confidenti= al. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any= dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly p= rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy= the original message and any copies or printouts hereof.<BR> </DIV></body> </html> --_000_A3A915D4968D3547B15269C244643B620A6EE489ECEXCHANGE2K7dt_--


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