Subject: Re: Sound file formats for journal From: "John O'Connell" <johngerardoconnell@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:40:36 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--14dae9399ca502de9a04c9a8bb8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, You didn't mention how you planned to implement this embedding of sounds into the online journal. As it is online then perhaps this solution would work... its used by sites like soundcloud and last fm and it supports a lot of formats and a lot of different browsers and devices. http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/ It probably doesn't support flac: https://getsatisfaction.com/schillmania/topics/what_about_streaming_lossles= s_audio_formats Also, if you don't have time to implement support for all these audio codecs, you could utilise software like ffmpeg on the server side to transcode all uploaded stimuli to wave/MP3. You thus avoid the issues associated with online playback of audio. You could then offer users the option to download the stimuli in their original formats. Cheers, John El 14/09/2012 14:00, "Etienne Gaudrain" <egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx> escribi= =C3=B3: > Hello Dan, > > I realized part of my message was unclear. > > I might be wrong but I think the ubiquitous method to play sound files in > a web-browser is, to date, based on Flash. This is the only third-party > multimedia plugin that is available on almost all computers (and > plateforms). Now if you download an MP3 file on your machine, of course > there's gazillions of (free) software that will let you read them, not > disputing that. > > Now, as Flash is more-or-less set to disappear, especially on portable > devices, a lot of people have turned to HTML5. There you really rely on > what the browser natively supports. Again, I may be wrong but to my > knowledge, while IE, Chrome and Safari support MP3 (and not OGG, apart fo= r > Chrome), Firefox and Opera support OGG (and not MP3). They all support WA= V > though (well, except IE but who cares). So if compatibility is to be > maintained with all three main browsers, then both MP3 and OGG should be > used. That's what I wanted to suggest. > > As for Nick's suggestion about mp3HD, I think this is a bit dangerous > because only players (and readers) supporting mp3HD will read the lossles= s > part. The others will only read the compressed part. So it might be a bit > tricky to know which part is actually used. > > -Etienne > > > > On 14/09/2012 09:55, Dan Stowell wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> It's not clear to me whether you're asking about short-term presentation >> or long-term archival. I think Etienne's response covers the important >> points for short-term (although I would point out that MP3 has an >> overwhelming critical mass of usage, and certainly doesn't rely on flash >> for playback!). >> >> For archival, the "TC04" archiving standard (IASA 2009) would recommend >> that you aim for 24bit / 96 kHz BWAV (BWAV, "Broadcast WAV", is related = to >> ordinary WAV, with some small tweaks to the format for scaleability). >> >> Best >> Dan >> >> >> On 13/09/12 15:54, Robert Zatorre wrote: >> >>> Dear list >>> >>> In an effort to enhance the Frontiers in Auditory Cognitive Neuroscienc= e >>> journal, we would like to enable sounds files to be uploaded for >>> reviewers to be able to hear the stimuli used in a given experiment. >>> Eventually we would also like to have a means of having these sound >>> files embedded directly into the online journal article so that readers >>> can hear the stimuli used. (Of course this could apply not only to >>> stimuli, but also to other sound files that are part of the study, such >>> as recorded vocalizations, speech or musical sounds produced under some >>> experimental conditions, and so forth) >>> >>> My question for you all is what file formats do you think we would need >>> to support? The two obvious ones are wav and mp3, but perhaps there are >>> others that you may think are important or that have some advantages >>> that should also be considered. >>> >>> Thank you for your thoughts. >>> >>> PS feel free to send me your comments directly >>> >>> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+**-+-+ >>> >>> Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D. >>> Montreal Neurological Institute >>> 3801 University St. >>> Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4 >>> phone: 1-514-398-8903 >>> fax: 1-514-398-1338 >>> e-mail: robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx >>> web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca >>> >> >> --14dae9399ca502de9a04c9a8bb8e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Robert,</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">You didn't mention how you planned to implement this emb= edding of sounds into the online journal. As it is online then perhaps this= solution would work... its used by sites like soundcloud and last fm and i= t supports a lot of formats and a lot of different browsers and devices.</p= > <p dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2= /">http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/</a><br></p> <p dir=3D"ltr">It probably doesn't support flac:</p> <p dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://getsatisfaction.com/schillmania/topics/wh= at_about_streaming_lossless_audio_formats">https://getsatisfaction.com/schi= llmania/topics/what_about_streaming_lossless_audio_formats</a></p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Also, if you don't have time to implement support for al= l these audio codecs, you could utilise software like ffmpeg on the server = side to transcode all uploaded stimuli to wave/MP3.=C2=A0 You thus avoid th= e issues associated with online playback of audio. You could then offer use= rs the option to download the stimuli in their original formats.</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">John</p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">El 14/09/2012 14:00, "Etienne Gaudrain"= ; <<a href=3D"mailto:egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx">egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx</a= >> escribi=C3=B3:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"= > Hello Dan,<br> <br> I realized part of my message was unclear.<br> <br> I might be wrong but I think the ubiquitous method to play sound files in a= web-browser is, to date, based on Flash. This is the only third-party mult= imedia plugin that is available on almost all computers (and plateforms). N= ow if you download an MP3 file on your machine, of course there's gazil= lions of (free) software that will let you read them, not disputing that.<b= r> <br> Now, as Flash is more-or-less set to disappear, especially on portable devi= ces, a lot of people have turned to HTML5. There you really rely on what th= e browser natively supports. Again, I may be wrong but to my knowledge, whi= le IE, Chrome and Safari support MP3 (and not OGG, apart for Chrome), Firef= ox and Opera support OGG (and not MP3). They all support WAV though (well, = except IE but who cares). So if compatibility is to be maintained with all = three main browsers, then both MP3 and OGG should be used. That's what = I wanted to suggest.<br> <br> As for Nick's suggestion about mp3HD, I think this is a bit dangerous b= ecause only players (and readers) supporting mp3HD will read the lossless p= art. The others will only read the compressed part. So it might be a bit tr= icky to know which part is actually used.<br> <br> -Etienne<br> <br> <br> <br> On 14/09/2012 09:55, Dan Stowell wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Robert,<br> <br> It's not clear to me whether you're asking about short-term present= ation or long-term archival. I think Etienne's response covers the impo= rtant points for short-term (although I would point out that MP3 has an ove= rwhelming critical mass of usage, and certainly doesn't rely on flash f= or playback!).<br> <br> For archival, the "TC04" archiving standard (IASA 2009) would rec= ommend that you aim for 24bit / 96 kHz BWAV (BWAV, "Broadcast WAV"= ;, is related to ordinary WAV, with some small tweaks to the format for sca= leability).<br> <br> Best<br> Dan<br> <br> <br> On 13/09/12 15:54, Robert Zatorre wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Dear list<br> <br> In an effort to enhance the Frontiers in Auditory Cognitive Neuroscience<br= > journal, we would like to enable sounds files to be uploaded for<br> reviewers to be able to hear the stimuli used in a given experiment.<br> Eventually we would also like to have a means of having these sound<br> files embedded directly into the online journal article so that readers<br> can hear the stimuli used. (Of course this could apply not only to<br> stimuli, but also to other sound files that are part of the study, such<br> as recorded vocalizations, speech or musical sounds produced under some<br> experimental conditions, and so forth)<br> <br> My question for you all is what file formats do you think we would need<br> to support? The two obvious ones are wav and mp3, but perhaps there are<br> others that you may think are important or that have some advantages<br> that should also be considered.<br> <br> Thank you for your thoughts.<br> <br> PS feel free to send me your comments directly<br> <br> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<u></u>-+-+<br> <br> Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.<br> Montreal Neurological Institute<br> 3801 University St.<br> Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4<br> phone: <a href=3D"tel:1-514-398-8903" value=3D"+15143988903" target=3D"_bla= nk">1-514-398-8903</a><br> fax: <a href=3D"tel:1-514-398-1338" value=3D"+15143981338" target=3D"_blank= ">1-514-398-1338</a><br> e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">rober= t.zatorre@xxxxxxxx</a><br> web site: <a href=3D"http://www.zlab.mcgill.ca" target=3D"_blank">www.zlab.= mcgill.ca</a><br> </blockquote> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote></div> --14dae9399ca502de9a04c9a8bb8e--