Subject: Re: Sound file formats for journal From: "Peres, S. Camille" <PeresSC@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:02:52 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--_000_2C896EB7F07A43EDA8136566DE9B9891uhcledu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with a server side solution if at all possible. This would all you = more flexibility to always have sounds available as the formats change in t= he future. I think it is important to consider as well that there are two t= ypes of needs for the sounds. 1) Those who want to hear it so they can unde= rstand the study and the results better and 2) those who need the lossless = sound for more experimental purposes. Ideally, the process needs to be much= easier for the first group because you'll have many more of them. It's rea= sonable that the second group may have to take an extra step or two to get = the sound file they need. Regardless, kudos for doing this! Best, Camille On Sep 14, 2012, at 7:40 AM, John O'Connell wrote: Hi Robert, You didn't mention how you planned to implement this embedding of sounds in= to the online journal. As it is online then perhaps this solution would wor= k... its used by sites like soundcloud and last fm and it supports a lot of= formats and a lot of different browsers and devices. http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/ It probably doesn't support flac: https://getsatisfaction.com/schillmania/topics/what_about_streaming_lossles= s_audio_formats Also, if you don't have time to implement support for all these audio codec= s, you could utilise software like ffmpeg on the server side to transcode a= ll uploaded stimuli to wave/MP3. You thus avoid the issues associated with= online playback of audio. You could then offer users the option to downloa= d the stimuli in their original formats. Cheers, John El 14/09/2012 14:00, "Etienne Gaudrain" <egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx<mailto:ega= udrain.cam@xxxxxxxx>> escribi=F3: Hello Dan, I realized part of my message was unclear. I might be wrong but I think the ubiquitous method to play sound files in a= web-browser is, to date, based on Flash. This is the only third-party mult= imedia plugin that is available on almost all computers (and plateforms). N= ow if you download an MP3 file on your machine, of course there's gazillion= s of (free) software that will let you read them, not disputing that. Now, as Flash is more-or-less set to disappear, especially on portable devi= ces, a lot of people have turned to HTML5. There you really rely on what th= e browser natively supports. Again, I may be wrong but to my knowledge, whi= le IE, Chrome and Safari support MP3 (and not OGG, apart for Chrome), Firef= ox and Opera support OGG (and not MP3). They all support WAV though (well, = except IE but who cares). So if compatibility is to be maintained with all = three main browsers, then both MP3 and OGG should be used. That's what I wa= nted to suggest. As for Nick's suggestion about mp3HD, I think this is a bit dangerous becau= se only players (and readers) supporting mp3HD will read the lossless part.= The others will only read the compressed part. So it might be a bit tricky= to know which part is actually used. -Etienne On 14/09/2012 09:55, Dan Stowell wrote: Robert, It's not clear to me whether you're asking about short-term presentation or= long-term archival. I think Etienne's response covers the important points= for short-term (although I would point out that MP3 has an overwhelming cr= itical mass of usage, and certainly doesn't rely on flash for playback!). For archival, the "TC04" archiving standard (IASA 2009) would recommend tha= t you aim for 24bit / 96 kHz BWAV (BWAV, "Broadcast WAV", is related to ord= inary WAV, with some small tweaks to the format for scaleability). Best Dan On 13/09/12 15:54, Robert Zatorre wrote: Dear list In an effort to enhance the Frontiers in Auditory Cognitive Neuroscience journal, we would like to enable sounds files to be uploaded for reviewers to be able to hear the stimuli used in a given experiment. Eventually we would also like to have a means of having these sound files embedded directly into the online journal article so that readers can hear the stimuli used. (Of course this could apply not only to stimuli, but also to other sound files that are part of the study, such as recorded vocalizations, speech or musical sounds produced under some experimental conditions, and so forth) My question for you all is what file formats do you think we would need to support? The two obvious ones are wav and mp3, but perhaps there are others that you may think are important or that have some advantages that should also be considered. Thank you for your thoughts. PS feel free to send me your comments directly -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D. Montreal Neurological Institute 3801 University St. Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4 phone: 1-514-398-8903<tel:1-514-398-8903> fax: 1-514-398-1338<tel:1-514-398-1338> e-mail: robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx<mailto:robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx> web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca<http://www.zlab.mcgill.ca/> ************************************************ S. Camille Peres, Ph.D., peressc@xxxxxxxx<mailto:peressc@xxxxxxxx> Associate Professor, Psychology Department University of Houston-Clear Lake, Box 307 2700 Bay Area Blvd, Houston, TX 77058 o. 281.283.3412 f. 281.283.3406 http://coursesite.uhcl.edu/hsh/PeresSC/ ************************************************ --_000_2C896EB7F07A43EDA8136566DE9B9891uhcledu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <84B334B8F46DCE4085808D5BCEC864C1@xxxxxxxx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; "> I agree with a server side solution if at all possible. This would all you = more flexibility to always have sounds available as the formats change in t= he future. I think it is important to consider as well that there are two t= ypes of needs for the sounds. 1) Those who want to hear it so they can understand the study and the results= better and 2) those who need the lossless sound for more experimental purp= oses. Ideally, the process needs to be much easier for the first group beca= use you'll have many more of them. It's reasonable that the second group may have to take an extra step or tw= o to get the sound file they need. <div><br> </div> <div>Regardless, kudos for doing this!</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Best, Camille<br> <div><br> </div> <div><br> <div> <div>On Sep 14, 2012, at 7:40 AM, John O'Connell wrote:</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Robert,</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">You didn't mention how you planned to implement this embeddi= ng of sounds into the online journal. As it is online then perhaps this sol= ution would work... its used by sites like soundcloud and last fm and it su= pports a lot of formats and a lot of different browsers and devices.</p> <p dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2= /">http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/</a><br> </p> <p dir=3D"ltr">It probably doesn't support flac:</p> <p dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://getsatisfaction.com/schillmania/topics/wh= at_about_streaming_lossless_audio_formats">https://getsatisfaction.com/schi= llmania/topics/what_about_streaming_lossless_audio_formats</a></p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Also, if you don't have time to implement support for all th= ese audio codecs, you could utilise software like ffmpeg on the server side= to transcode all uploaded stimuli to wave/MP3. You thus avoid the is= sues associated with online playback of audio. You could then offer users the option to download the stimuli in th= eir original formats.</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">John</p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">El 14/09/2012 14:00, "Etienne Gaudrain"= ; <<a href=3D"mailto:egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx">egaudrain.cam@xxxxxxxx</a= >> escribi=F3:<br type=3D"attribution"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hello Dan,<br> <br> I realized part of my message was unclear.<br> <br> I might be wrong but I think the ubiquitous method to play sound files in a= web-browser is, to date, based on Flash. This is the only third-party mult= imedia plugin that is available on almost all computers (and plateforms). N= ow if you download an MP3 file on your machine, of course there's gazillions of (free) software that will le= t you read them, not disputing that.<br> <br> Now, as Flash is more-or-less set to disappear, especially on portable devi= ces, a lot of people have turned to HTML5. There you really rely on what th= e browser natively supports. Again, I may be wrong but to my knowledge, whi= le IE, Chrome and Safari support MP3 (and not OGG, apart for Chrome), Firefox and Opera support OGG (and no= t MP3). They all support WAV though (well, except IE but who cares). So if = compatibility is to be maintained with all three main browsers, then both M= P3 and OGG should be used. That's what I wanted to suggest.<br> <br> As for Nick's suggestion about mp3HD, I think this is a bit dangerous becau= se only players (and readers) supporting mp3HD will read the lossless part.= The others will only read the compressed part. So it might be a bit tricky= to know which part is actually used.<br> <br> -Etienne<br> <br> <br> <br> On 14/09/2012 09:55, Dan Stowell wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Robert,<br> <br> It's not clear to me whether you're asking about short-term presentation or= long-term archival. I think Etienne's response covers the important points= for short-term (although I would point out that MP3 has an overwhelming cr= itical mass of usage, and certainly doesn't rely on flash for playback!).<br> <br> For archival, the "TC04" archiving standard (IASA 2009) would rec= ommend that you aim for 24bit / 96 kHz BWAV (BWAV, "Broadcast WAV"= ;, is related to ordinary WAV, with some small tweaks to the format for sca= leability).<br> <br> Best<br> Dan<br> <br> <br> On 13/09/12 15:54, Robert Zatorre wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Dear list<br> <br> In an effort to enhance the Frontiers in Auditory Cognitive Neuroscience<br= > journal, we would like to enable sounds files to be uploaded for<br> reviewers to be able to hear the stimuli used in a given experiment.<br> Eventually we would also like to have a means of having these sound<br> files embedded directly into the online journal article so that readers<br> can hear the stimuli used. (Of course this could apply not only to<br> stimuli, but also to other sound files that are part of the study, such<br> as recorded vocalizations, speech or musical sounds produced under some<br> experimental conditions, and so forth)<br> <br> My question for you all is what file formats do you think we would need<br> to support? The two obvious ones are wav and mp3, but perhaps there are<br> others that you may think are important or that have some advantages<br> that should also be considered.<br> <br> Thank you for your thoughts.<br> <br> PS feel free to send me your comments directly<br> <br> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+<u></u>-+-+<br> <br> Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.<br> Montreal Neurological Institute<br> 3801 University St.<br> Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4<br> phone: <a href=3D"tel:1-514-398-8903" value=3D"+15143988903" target=3D"= _blank">1-514-398-8903</a><br> fax: <a href=3D"tel:1-514-398-1338" value=3D"+15143981338" target=3D"_b= lank">1-514-398-1338</a><br> e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">rober= t.zatorre@xxxxxxxx</a><br> web site: <a href=3D"http://www.zlab.mcgill.ca/" target=3D"_blank">www.zlab= .mcgill.ca</a><br> </blockquote> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style= =3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;= font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spac= ing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; tex= t-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-s= pacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertica= l-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size= -adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span c= lass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "> <div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <br class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div><br class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div><br class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div>************************************************</div> <div>S. Camille Peres, Ph.D., <a href=3D"mailto:peressc@xxxxxxxx">peressc@xxxxxxxx= hcl.edu</a></div> <div>Associate Professor, Psychology Department</div> <div>University of Houston-Clear Lake, Box 307</div> <div>2700 Bay Area Blvd, Houston, TX 77058</div> <div>o. 281.283.3412</div> <div>f. 281.283.3406</div> <div><a href=3D"http://coursesite.uhcl.edu/hsh/PeresSC/">http://coursesite.= uhcl.edu/hsh/PeresSC/</a></div> <div>************************************************</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </span></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_2C896EB7F07A43EDA8136566DE9B9891uhcledu_--