Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Note durations in music From: Justin London <jlondon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 07:12:24 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail-19-260837099 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 A quick rejoinder to Ed, and a note about MIDI pedaling If one has MIDI data from a live performance on MIDI instruments = (usually keyboard, but there are also MIDI guitar and wind instrument = controllers), one can gather information from "note on-note on" command, = and thus obtain IOIs, as well as note durations (onset to offset time) = and inter-note durations (offset to onset times). As noted in my = previous post, the trick/challenge is sorting out which notes/MIDI = events to chose as being "in the same melodic/auditory stream" and hence = which notes to use for making these sorts of calculations. And re pedaling: Pedaling data is in the MIDI note stream itself, as the = pedal is used to control offset timings of keys/events that have been = actuated (though control parameters can be tweaked in various ways). = Essentially the pedal suppresses the MIDI note off command from any key = that has been released until the pedal is also released--in essence, an = electronic sostenuto pedal, not a damper pedal. Best, Justin London On Jun 17, 2013, at 8:48 AM, Edward Large wrote: > Hi Ani and list, >=20 > I can't seem to think of any paper that has done such measurements = systematically. > But I would caution that notated duration in music is fundamentally = about onset-onset > time, not onset-offset time. So, while studying midi renderings (or = other=20 > notation-related representations) would provide an answer to this = question, it would > be of questionable value.The only way to get a reasonable answer would = be to > study audio recordings of performances.=20 >=20 > Ed >=20 > Edward Large, Ph.D. > Professor of Complex Systems & Brain Sciences > Florida Atlantic University > www.ccs.fau.edu/~large >=20 >=20 > On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "Patel, Aniruddh D." <a.patel@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: >=20 >> Dear list, >> =20 >> I=92m trying to find papers which report measurements of two aspects = of note duration in solo instrumental monophonic music (e.g., recordings = of solo violin, cello, trumpet, clarinet, flute, etc. =96 not piano, = guitar, or other instruments that can play multiple notes = simultaneously). >> =20 >> 1. The average duration of notes in a piece >> 2. A histogram of note durations in the piece >> =20 >> Thus for example this solo cello prelude by JS Bach last about 4 = minutes and contains N notes (anybody know?), so the average note = duration in this piece is about N/240 notes/sec. =20 >> =20 >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdtLKjeEssAo >> =20 >> If one could measure the duration of each note in this recording, = then one could plot the histogram of note durations in the piece. >> =20 >> Is anyone aware of such data for any solo monophonic instrument? = Musical style doesn=92t matter (can be classical, folk, etc.). =20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >> =20 >> Ani Patel >> =20 >> =20 >> Aniruddh D. Patel >> Associate Professor >> Dept. of Psychology >> Tufts University >> 490 Boston Ave. >> Medford, MA 02115 >> =20 >> a.patel@xxxxxxxx >> http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/peoplePatel.htm >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 >> believed to be clean. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 > believed to be clean. ************************************************* Justin London Affiliated Researcher, Centre for Music and Science, University of = Cambridge Professor of Music (and other stuff), Carleton College Department of Music One North College St. Northfield, MN 55057 USA 507-222-4397 fax 507-222-5561 jlondon@xxxxxxxx --Apple-Mail-19-260837099 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">A = quick rejoinder to Ed, and a note about MIDI = pedaling<div><br></div><div>If one has MIDI data from a live performance = on MIDI instruments (usually keyboard, but there are also MIDI guitar = and wind instrument controllers), one can gather information from "note = on-note on" command, and thus obtain IOIs, as well as note durations = (onset to offset time) and inter-note durations (offset to onset times). = As noted in my previous post, the trick/challenge is sorting out = which notes/MIDI events to chose as being "in the same melodic/auditory = stream" and hence which notes to use for making these sorts of = calculations.</div><div><br></div><div>And re pedaling: Pedaling data is = in the MIDI note stream itself, as the pedal is used to control offset = timings of keys/events that have been actuated (though control = parameters can be tweaked in various ways). Essentially the pedal = suppresses the MIDI note off command from any key that has been released = until the pedal is also released--in essence, an electronic sostenuto = pedal, not a damper = pedal.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Justin = London</div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 17, 2013, at 8:48 AM, Edward Large = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"><base href=3D"x-msg://106/"><div = style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Ani and = list,<div><br></div><div>I can't seem to think of any paper that has = done such measurements systematically.</div><div>But I would caution = that notated duration in music is fundamentally about = onset-onset</div><div>time, not onset-offset time. So, while studying = midi renderings (or = other </div><div>notation-related representations) would = provide an answer to this question, it would</div><div>be of = questionable value.The only way to get a reasonable answer would be = to</div><div>study audio recordings of = performances. </div><div><br></div><div>Ed</div><div><br></div><div>E= dward Large, Ph.D.</div><div><div>Professor of Complex Systems & = Brain Sciences</div><div>Florida Atlantic University</div></div><div><a = href=3D"http://www.ccs.fau.edu/~large">www.ccs.fau.edu/~large</a></div><di= v><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:07 PM, = "Patel, Aniruddh D." <<a = href=3D"mailto:a.patel@xxxxxxxx">a.patel@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = "><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; ">Dear list,<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I=92m trying to = find papers which report measurements of two aspects of note duration in = solo instrumental monophonic music (e.g., recordings of solo violin, = cello, trumpet, clarinet, flute, etc. =96 not piano, guitar, or other = instruments that can play multiple notes = simultaneously).<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: -0.25in; = "><span>1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "> <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>The average = duration of notes in a piece<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = text-indent: -0.25in; "><span>2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: = normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "> <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>A histogram = of note durations in the piece<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thus for example = this solo cello prelude by JS Bach last about 4 minutes and contains N = notes (anybody know?), so the average note duration in this piece is = about N/240 notes/sec. <o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a = href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdtLKjeEssAo" style=3D"color: = purple; text-decoration: underline; = ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdtLKjeEssAo</a><o:p></o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">If = one could measure the duration of each note in this recording, then one = could plot the histogram of note durations in the = piece.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Is anyone aware of = such data for any solo monophonic instrument? Musical style = doesn=92t matter (can be classical, folk, etc.). <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></d= iv><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Ani = Patel<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: = 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = ">Aniruddh D. Patel<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Associate = Professor<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Dept. of = Psychology<br>Tufts University<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">490 = Boston Ave.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Medford, MA = 02115<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: = 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:a.patel@xxxxxxxx" = style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline; = ">a.patel@xxxxxxxx</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a = href=3D"http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/peoplePatel.htm" style=3D"color: = purple; text-decoration: underline; = ">http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/peoplePatel.htm</a><o:p></o:p></div><div= style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><br>--<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>This message has been = scanned for viruses and<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>dangerous content = by<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/" style=3D"color: purple; = text-decoration: underline; "><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>believed to be = clean.</div></blockquote></div><br></div><br>--=20 <br>This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>believed to be clean. </div> </blockquote></div><br><div> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: = normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div = style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; = "><div><div>*************************************************</div><div>Ju= stin London</div><div>Affiliated Researcher, <i>Centre for Music = and Science,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>University of = Cambridge</div><div>Professor of Music (and other stuff), Carleton = College</div><div>Department of Music</div><div>One North College = St.</div><div>Northfield, MN 55057 = USA</div><div>507-222-4397</div><div>fax 507-222-5561</div><div><a = href=3D"mailto:jlondon@xxxxxxxx">jlondon@xxxxxxxx</a></div><div><b= r></div></div></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-19-260837099--