Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] MIDI Drum Pads: Delay and temporal resolution From: SKoT McDonald <skot@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:04:31 +0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>
In 2006 at FXpansion, we made measurements of different drum module's latencies as part of an investigation into why certain users were experiencing bad latency with their e-drum kits when using our BFD range of drum software. We found that Roland TD-20s were quite slow - it seems their propitiatory COSM modelling of impacts added 1-2 ms, even for MIDI-only event output; positional information was sent before the note onset in the form of MIDI CC messages - each 3-byte MIDI message adds 1ms - and some pads were sending 2-3 MIDI CC messages (hihats in particular!). The TD20 of the time had no USB MIDI option. A Yamaha DTX kit by contrast had less pre-processing of impacts, a USB connection for MIDI, and less MIDI CC positional information, which I think you could switch off too - this made the Yamaha "brains" about 3-4 ms faster to get a MIDI Note to the sequencer or instrument on your computer. Our audio devices tended to be high end, such as RME Firefaces with 64 sample buffers (~1.5ms @xxxxxxxx 44.1kHz). Considering that ~6ms is the border of average human timing discernment, we found "rhythmically highly trained" subjects, like drummers, were capable of being put off by the TD-20's lag, despite being the highest priced kit in the market. We hassled Roland for many years to at least add a MIDI USB connection... Cheers, SKoT McDonald On 18/06/2013 7:09 PM, Andre Holzapfel wrote: > Dear Benjamin, > > we will have a paper in this years SMC conference related to the > acquisition of tapping data using software implemented at INESC TEC in > Porto. > > We did an experiment to determine the overall latency when using a > MIDI interface (Roland Handsonic HPD-10) connected through a > Digidesign USB sound card to a 2012 iMac. The obtained latency was > 17ms. I do not know how much you can gain by using more high end > interfaces, but I would agree with the previous response, that it is > very unlikely to get even close to sub-millisecond accuracy using MIDI. > > Please let me know about your further investigations, contact me if > you like to obtain the paper in advance. > > Best, > > Andre Holzapfel > > > Quoting Benjamin Schultz <benjamin.schultz@xxxxxxxx>: > >> Dear Auditory List, >> >> I am currently looking at purchasing a MIDI Drum Pad for experimental >> research involving finger tapping. There appears to be very little >> information regarding how much of a time delay there is between the >> pads being tapped and the sound being produced (via external MIDI >> devices or the drum pad's internal sequencer). >> >> I'm looking to have the smallest time delay possible (sub-millisecond >> would be ideal). Does anyone have any advice about the best device to >> use and what kinds of time delays I should expect from the device? >> Their unit of pulses per quarter note does not appear to be very >> informative. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Dr. Benjamin G. Schultz >> Post-doctoral Fellow >> >> Sequence Production Lab >> McGill University >> Stewart Biology Building >> 1205 Dr. Penfield Ave., Montreal H3A 1B1 >> Montreal, Quebec H3A 1B1 >> Canada >> Tel.: 514-398-5270 >> Fax: 514-398-4896 >> >> Email: benjamin.schultz@xxxxxxxx >> http://www.mcgill.ca/spl/members/currentmembers#SCHULTZ<http://www.mcgill.ca/spl/members/currentmembers%23SCHULTZ> >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.