Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Unanesthetized measurements From: Bastian Epp <bepp@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:53:06 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--------------010308040405030507040504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dan, list! A short comment (personal but also to the community): A measurement like that (at least for BM motion) would ethically not be=20 acceptable with current technology. And if you think about it I guess it=20 is straight forward to identify the critical issues. Many people do a=20 fantastic job to get the most out the measurements within the ethically=20 acceptable limits (Nigel Cooper, Mario Ruggero...) and we should=20 acknowledge and appreciate that. Many smart people worked on putting up=20 these limits and all of us should keep an eye on these. Without wanting to insult you, but this question is not really one to be=20 asked, even though the data would be valuable. Think about it and=20 discuss it with a physiologist of your own choice..(I guess you didn't=20 do that yet). Bests Bastian On 09/13/2013 08:27 AM, Derek Burton wrote: > Dear List, > > Has anyone made auditory nerve and/or basilar membrane motion=20 > measurements in awake, behaving (non-decerebrate) animals? > > Thanks for any input, > > Derek Burton > dB, PhD > --=20 Bastian Epp Assistant Professor ELEK VIP DTU Electrical Engineering Technical University of Denmark =09 Department of Electrical Engineering =D8rsteds Plads Building 352 2800 Kgs. Lyngby Direct +45 45253953 bepp@xxxxxxxx <mailto:bepp@xxxxxxxx> www.elektro.dtu.dk/ <http://www.elektro.dtu.dk/> --------------010308040405030507040504 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------020303010107040508080405" --------------020303010107040508080405 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Dan, list!<br> <br> A short comment (personal but also to the community):<br> <br> A measurement like that (at least for BM motion) would ethically not be acceptable with current technology. And if you think about it I guess it is straight forward to identify the critical issues. Many people do a fantastic job to get the most out the measurements within the ethically acceptable limits (Nigel Cooper, Mario Ruggero...) and we should acknowledge and appreciate that. Many smart people worked on putting up these limits and all of us should keep an eye on these.<br> <br> Without wanting to insult you, but this question is not really one to be asked, even though the data would be valuable. Think about it and discuss it with a physiologist of your own choice..(I guess you didn't do that yet).<br> <br> Bests<br> <br> Bastian<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On 09/13/2013 08:27 AM, Derek Burton wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:19676_1379054376_5232B328_19676_174_1_CANNsiN1qg58aZ86whC2QUR1kA9oEp6FTmV2H40WooKiLAwKNzQ@xxxxxxxx" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <div dir="ltr"> <div>Dear List,<br> <br> </div> <div>Has anyone made auditory nerve and/or basilar membrane motion measurements in awake, behaving (non-decerebrate) animals?<br> <br> </div> <div>Thanks for any input,<br> <br> Derek Burton<br> </div> <div>dB, PhD<br> <br> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> <table> <tbody> <tr> <td> <div> <p> <table style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: Black; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="400px"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" valign="top" width="400px"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 8pt; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Arial;" valign="top" width="400px"> Bastian Epp </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="color: rgb(155, 155, 155); font-size: 8pt; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Arial;" valign="top" width="400px"> Assistant Professor </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="font-size: 8pt; margin-bottom: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; font-family: Arial; height: 0px;" valign="top" width="400px"> ELEK VIP </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="font-size: 8pt; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Arial;" valign="top" width="400px"> DTU Electrical Engineering </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(174, 174, 174); font-size: 8pt; line-height: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-top: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" valign="top" width="400px"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="padding-top: 8px;" valign="top" width="350px"> <p style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"> Technical University of Denmark</p> </td> <td rowspan="10" style="text-align: right; font-family: Arial; padding-top: 8px;" align="right" valign="top" width="50px"> <img src="cid:part1.01010209.07070201@xxxxxxxx" height="53" width="36"> </td> </tr> <tr style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> <td> Department of Electrical Engineering </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> Ørsteds Plads </td> </tr> <tr style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> <td> Building 352 </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> 2800 Kgs. Lyngby </td> </tr> <tr style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> <td> Direct +45 45253953 </td> </tr> <tr style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> <td> <a href="mailto:bepp@xxxxxxxx">bepp@xxxxxxxx</a> </td> </tr> <tr style="margin: 0px; font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"> <td> <a href="http://www.elektro.dtu.dk/" style="color: blue;">www.elektro.dtu.dk/</a> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </p> <p> </p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </body> </html> --------------020303010107040508080405 Content-Type: image/gif; name="DTU_email_logo_01.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <part1.01010209.07070201@xxxxxxxx> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="DTU_email_logo_01.gif" R0lGODlhJAA1ANUAAP39/acmJpUAALOzs/Pz8+vNzeS9va6ursvLy7VKSuTk5KCgoKw0NNLS 0sNra9jY2O7W1fTl5ZgAAKIbG5CQkMyCgtqkpKqqqvz5+Z6entOTlN2rq7lTU7xbW8p9fPHd 3dGNjaWlpZmZmdaZmfnx8ZsKCvv7+/fr6+G0tObCwrm5ucZxcfX19enp6e7u7vv09Jubm/ju 7s+IiJ8SEunHx9ifn7A9Pr5fX5SUlPj4+JeXl5aWlpMAAJWVlZkAAP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAA AAAkADUAAAb/wB8hoxMZjSrXD3DZHY+7UO7Q6z1+v9yit8hhh8UeDqejhAiAEIXyXMNYhx3u mt12v5kdDPFowEQUKj8PCAghOjohhQ0mTXNYWlxeQnkwBFgIFD0HWFgDVZxYTHJ0kXeUeko/ Cj07FwCdAzibnaOPdZJ4qVisUSaxs6FLjqV2k0O7q60hv57BtcSQxrowqr3MwLSi0binyNW8 y80/strDpNK5qODKvtnCtsXq39bi79Do3ceV9e7O5vHSeeMXzh+5Z9vymdqX7Nq4cvC4LaTW D9u/iAqnrVPVAIcrWBfx4WjwBcaOgTpgKCDgggqOAZ0OmvuhYtYAAAAaVAkBEoyI/wwZTOrA oSAmxJisily4YIQCgk4EYMwaQ2ZPTHJrhGFpMHSNxwGTlrRQQJZsi0tXXZi9+sMFIQQNWrCd S7eu3bt48+rdy7dv3wgk/JqAgBfCjRkTbmx4gRdACgcMSiRAQfeEgxI8JAjgwSNAhQJ0P2hg IIGHgNICOBDuFKFCANM+YsfeLIGBAw0WLIzwkADzadk+SpdYAbqCb+DINXNebloCcuCob1hI 4EPAc9moJcyYUR329eoCbIDAYiCB99kCBCQeUeBEDAgbVgTY/Ht2ZwtsQTBIn35Cgg0x0IWB ATcEgJoAAazA2FwAWMDAfwviNWCBMkTo14WhReDXC6DdFf/BZTM4UMA4dkXgwXyqhdbBDJmV 5kOCBmAwVwEVMMDiaQJIRkNMJMjAonPY0RfADSCgYMAIkPnQHHSnOaDhCj9+Z59pmy35nWYl cICCDelJSd9pmtEH5HObBTACFhtw0GWQEiQ4Agop0GBADR4woKR1sm1mwwgW/rABA1TyMAMH KchIVwEOTEAfDxPIABJbL9RgAwc1aJhXDBtAJsMJGHY64wd+nWDAo6FxIEGWKZBaFwSJ8mDD jnNB4MGPpdVWZGBXYZCCBr1lVp0EHcCKRQxQnhccff5VAAIIMnQwn5WxocYBqDVEKaVyzOF5 JQ/DpZBAemMyKaYEpUGLXHoM4Oc8pw2aAbfZiwnIYAANBexa4HF5IjjeVQbYEOgEIhrKFgAf uAZuZxqo2gkGGgRggwYB5oXBBglMsAKunQQBADs= --------------020303010107040508080405-- --------------010308040405030507040504--