Subject: Re: perceptual audio codecs From: Marcelo Caetano <gaiolouvo-auditory@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 04:06:05 -0700 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>---268986479-1818637775-1397214365=:85897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Alberto,=0A=0Anot long ago I found some Matlab code (https://github.c= om/jorgehatccrma/AudioMorphing/blob/master/Testing/PQevalAudio-v1r0/PQevalA= udio/PQevalAudio.m) that implements PEAQ (http://www.peaq.org/). You can fi= nd more information here=A0http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents/Software= /Packages/AFsp/PQevalAudio.html=0A=0AI'm not sure if it's the same, but you= there's more code here=A0http://sourceforge.net/projects/peaqb/=0A=0AI hop= e that helps,=0A=0AMarcelo=0AEm Sexta-feira, 11 de Abril de 2014 5:45, Jame= s Johnston <audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx> escreveu:=0A =0AThat's a toughie. Most = of the encoders (which are usually not fully standardized) are very proprie= tary.=0A>=0A>=0A>None of them to speak of will be Matlab, most will be 'C' = or c++, at least in the usual form.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at = 12:43 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A>=0A>Sorry = i probably wrongly expressed myself. I'm not going to test codecs with soft= ware. I'm going to use perceptual tests. What i'm looking for is the actual= codec code to run it for evaluation and comparison (possibly in MATLAB). U= nfortunately i find only old code (10 years old). And i'm looking for somet= hing more recent.=A0=0A>>Hope it's clearer.=0A>>Alberto=0A>>=A0=0A>>|| | | = ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||= =0A>>=A0=0A>>ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0A>>site: jestern.com=0A>>shop: jest= ern.bandcamp.com=0A>>audio: soundcloud.com/jestern=0A>>video: vimeo.com/jes= tern=0A>>=A0=0A>>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | |= ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>If for any reason you wish not to re= ceive any more messages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE a= s subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. =0A>>=0A>>Se per qualsiasi ragi= one non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un mes= saggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.=0A>>=0A>>Il Giove= d=EC 10 Aprile 2014 6:37, James Johnston <audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx> ha scritt= o:=0A>> =0A>>Testing perceptual codecs with software is a bad idea.=A0 Any = code that does so is going to have to attempt a universal perceptual model,= or take one of the models from MPEG or other standards, in which case the = results are going to be biased.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Perceptual codecs should be t= ested strictly via listening tests.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>SQAM, etc, are not very u= seful at all, and there isn't a publically available model I know of that s= uffices for handling BMLD.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>jj (who invented a lot of that stf= f, fwiw)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:57 AM, JesterN Alberto= Novello <jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Dear List,=0A>>>I'm reviewing= the state of the art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this reason I tried c= ollecting some available MATLAB codecs for testing quality (in perceptual e= xperiments), compression ratio and speed. I realised there is not so much c= ode available out there and mostly quite old (probably for commercial copyr= ight reasons). So I thought of asking here if any of you has some links to = suggest about some available code (C, C++ also possible) possibly less than= a decade old.=0A>>>Thanks a lot=0A>>>Alberto=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>|| | | ||| |=A0= ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>>>= =A0=0A>>>ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0A>>>site: jestern.com=0A>>>shop: jester= n.bandcamp.com=0A>>>audio: soundcloud.com/jestern=0A>>>video: vimeo.com/jes= tern=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| |= | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>If for any reason you wish not = to receive any more messages from this email, please send an email with REM= OVE as subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. =0A>>>=0A>>>Se per qualsia= si ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami= un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.=0A>>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-- =0A>>=0A>>James D. (jj) Johnston=0A>>Independent Audio an= d Electroacoustics Consultant=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>James D. (jj)= Johnston=0A>Independent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant=0A>=0A> ---268986479-1818637775-1397214365=:85897 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He= lveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, = Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Hello Alberto,</span><= /div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Helve= ticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,= 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: no= rmal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:= 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica= Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: tr= ansparent; font-style: normal;">not long ago I found some Matlab code (http= s://github.com/jorgehatccrma/AudioMorphing/blob/master/Testing/PQevalAudio-= v1r0/PQevalAudio/PQevalAudio.m) that implements PEAQ (http://www.peaq.org/)= . You can find more information here http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents/Software/Packages/AFsp/P= QevalAudio.html</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; fo= nt-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', H= elvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent= ; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si= ze: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvet= ica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color:= transparent; font-style: normal;">I'm not sure if it's the same, but you t= here's more code here http://sourceforge.net/projects/peaqb/</div><div= style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-= Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida = Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><b= r></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, = Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-sty= le: normal;">I hope that helps,</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fon= t-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'He= lvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-co= lor: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0= , 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue= Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; b= ackground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Marcelo</div><div class= =3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Hel= veticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Aria= l, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-famil= y: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"= Arial"> Em Sexta-feira, 11 de Abril de 2014 5:45, James Johnston <audios= keptic@xxxxxxxx> escreveu:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style=3D"bord= er-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; pad= ding-left: 5px;"> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2441812586"= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That's a toughie. Most of the encoders (which are us= ually not fully standardized) are very proprietary.</div><div><br></div><di= v>None of them to speak of will be Matlab, most will be 'C' or c++, at leas= t in the usual form.</div>=0A</div><div class=3D"yiv2441812586gmail_extra">= <br><br><div class=3D"yiv2441812586gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:= 43 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofollow" ym= ailto=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:jester= n77@xxxxxxxx">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote cl= ass=3D"yiv2441812586gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeu= e, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-si= ze: 10pt;"><div>=0A<div><span>Sorry i probably wrongly expressed myself. I'= m not going to test codecs with software. I'm going to use perceptual tests= . What i'm looking for is the actual codec code to run it for evaluation an= d comparison (possibly in MATLAB). Unfortunately i find only old code (10 y= ears old). And i'm looking for something more recent. </span></div>=0A= <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;b= ackground-color:transparent;"><span>Hope it's clearer.</span></div>=0A</div= ><div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:13px;font-style:no= rmal;background-color:transparent;"><span>Alberto</span></div><div>=0A</div= ><div> </div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-= serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"f= ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16= px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text= -indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: norma= l; border-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"= ><font>|| | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | |||= | |||| | || ||||</font></font></font></span><span><font face=3D"Aria= l"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><br>=0A<span style=3D"font-size:10px= ;"> </span><br></font></font></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-= weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>site: <span style=3D"font= -weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://jestern= .com/">jestern.com</a></span><br>=0Ashop: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"= ><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://jestern.bandcamp.com/= ">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span><br>audio: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold= ;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://soundcloud.com/jest= ern">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></span><br>=0Avideo: <span style=3D"font-wei= ght:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/j= estern">vimeo.com/jestern</a></span><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font= -variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal= ; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-sp= acing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: sep= arate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-st= yle: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; li= ne-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-inden= t: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; bor= der-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font= ><font><font><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-= weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetic= a; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;= "><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><br>=0A<span style=3D"= font-size:10px;"> </span><br>|| | | ||| | || || | ||||| ||= | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || ||||</font></font></font></sp= an><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: no= rmal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-tr= ansform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px;= white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"></span></font></font></fo= nt></font></font></span></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-style: nor= mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-heigh= t: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; = letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-coll= apse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#aaaaaa"><br>=0A<br></= font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, clean= , sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10px;">If for any reason you wish not to receive any more m= essages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm s= orry for the inconvenience. <br>=0A</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: = arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; b= ackground-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size:x-small;">Se per qu= alsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, ma= ndami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.</span= ><br>=0A</div></div><div style=3D"display:block;"> <div style=3D"font-famil= y:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,= ;font-size:12pt;">=0A<div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> Il Giove= d=EC 10 Aprile 2014 6:37, James Johnston <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D= "mailto:audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:audioskept= ic@xxxxxxxx">audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx</a>> ha scritto:<br> </font> </div>= </div><div>=0A<div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Testing perceptual codecs w= ith software is a bad idea. Any code that does so is going to have to= attempt a universal perceptual model, or take one of the models from MPEG = or other standards, in which case the results are going to be biased.</div>= =0A=0A<div><br></div><div>Perceptual codecs should be tested strictly via l= istening tests.</div><div><br></div><div>SQAM, etc, are not very useful at = all, and there isn't a publically available model I know of that suffices f= or handling BMLD.</div>=0A=0A<div><br></div><div>jj (who invented a lot of = that stff, fwiw)</div></div></div><div><br><br><div><div>On Wed, Apr 9, 201= 4 at 2:57 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofol= low" ymailto=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto= :jestern77@xxxxxxxx">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br>=0A=0A</di= v><div><div class=3D"yiv2441812586h5"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-wi= dth:1px;border-left-style:solid;"><div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaN= eue,;font-size:10pt;">=0A<div>=0A<span>Dear List,</span></div><div><span>I'= m reviewing the state of the art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this reaso= n I tried collecting some available MATLAB codecs for testing quality (in p= erceptual experiments), compression ratio and speed. I realised there is no= t so much code available out there and mostly quite old (probably for comme= rcial copyright reasons). So I thought of asking here if any of you has som= e links to suggest about some available code (C, C++ also possible) possibl= y less than a decade old.</span></div>=0A=0A<div><span>Thanks a lot</span><= /div><div>=0A<span>Alberto</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div sty= le=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-style: normal;= background-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-va= riant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; f= ont-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spaci= ng: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separa= te;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font>|| | | ||| | = =0A || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || |||= |</font></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-varian= t: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-= family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"= ><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><br>=0A=0A<span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10px;"> </span><br></font></font></font></font></spa= n><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>sit= e: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" = href=3D"http://jestern.com/">jestern.com</a></span><br>=0A=0Ashop: <span st= yle=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"htt= p://jestern.bandcamp.com/">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span><br>audio: <span = style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"h= ttp://soundcloud.com/jestern">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></span><br>=0A=0Avi= deo: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank= " href=3D"http://vimeo.com/jestern">vimeo.com/jestern</a></span><span style= =3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz= e: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none;= text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: = normal; border-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#99= 9999"><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:= normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text= -transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0= px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><= font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><font><span style=3D"font-style: normal;= font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: n= ormal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; lett= er-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;= "><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><br>=0A=0A<span style= =3D"font-size:10px;"> </span><br>|| | | ||| | || || | ||||= | || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || ||||</font></font></font>= </span><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight= : normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; tex= t-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: = 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"></span></font></font>= </font></font></font></span></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-style:= normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-h= eight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0= px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-= collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#aaaaaa"><br>=0A= =0A<br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helveti= ca, clean, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">= <span style=3D"font-size:10px;">If for any reason you wish not to receive a= ny more messages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subje= ct. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. <br>=0A=0A</span></div><div style=3D"f= ont-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-styl= e: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size:x-small= ;">Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo i= ndirizzo,=0A mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il = disturbo.</span><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br><b= r clear=3D"all"><div><br>-- <br><div>James D. (jj) Johnston</div><div>Indep= endent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant</div>=0A=0A=0A</div></div></di= v><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>= <br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>James D. (jj) Johnston</div><div>Independ= ent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant</div>=0A</div></div><br><br></div= > </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html> ---268986479-1818637775-1397214365=:85897--