Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Query about Python software From: Sharath Chandra Ram <looplogic@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2021 02:20:05 -0600--000000000000bfb41b05bcedfc94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Kishore - I would agree with Richard on the learning curve and mind benders associated with R (For the rest of list members: similar to frustration with say, Supercollider), and it is not quite suited to what you want to= be doing. As others have stated, Python is a great route for you not only t= o get up and running fast, but you will have access to a lot of audio/sign= al processing and machine learning libraries. - Personally, i've been fortunate to have been into C/C++ since high school (Note Matlab, Python, etc etc all are written using C/C++), so I = am agnostic and can shift to any language, *but I greatly benefitted with a week of face 2 face sessions with seasoned python professional geeks.* - *Please feel free to message me offlist, so I can put you in touch with one of my ex-lab colleagues in Bangalore, India, a python fanatic, who now works with the Internet Archive, and also wrote Infogami and Web= .py with the late Aaron Swartz (also creator of Reditt). They really saved = me a lot of time, and are very good humans, benevolent with their time and intent.* - FYI : Matlab (is not Free, and most academics use it through their university license/ and well, corporations too because they hire academi= cs) has fast 'matrix' computation routines. However these days, python is equally if not much faster, and allows you to deploy algorithms on real world hardware. But you must in time also be adept at Matlab and switch = to Python as the need to develop for real word prototypes arises. - Having said that, many libraries used for audio processing and analysis in MATLAB are now available in Python. For example : https://github.com/librosa/librosa, PRAAT for Formant Tracking: https://parselmouth.readthedocs.io/en/stable/ or even some of Richard's models originally written in Matlab like this : https://github.com/sciforce/lyon , many more cochlear models etc.... End of the day, algorithms for signal processing and eventual machine learning, will have to be ported to run on embedded hardware (these days the mobile phone is emerging to be a great computer), with frameworks like TinyML. https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/fundamentals-tinyml?delta=3D0 Regards Sharath Chandra Ramakrishan On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:41 PM Timothy Beechey < 0000014613841c26-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > The different languages you mention are each based on different > programming paradigms (e.g. object-oriented, functional, etc.). This is > often a source of confusion and frustration when moving from one language > to another. Dismissing a widely used language because it is different fro= m > what you are used to or expecting tends to offend people who use that > language productively. > > Tim > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:48 AM Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > if you need proper statistics, R might be a better choice >> >> I'm mostly a Matlab user for the last 30 years or so, but getting to be >> more comfortable with Python. I had occasion to do a bit of R programmi= ng, >> and it was pretty horrible, with what seemed like a pretty irregular syn= tax >> and unpredictable set of idioms. Don't go there. >> >> Dick >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:19 PM Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski < >> k.basinski@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> Dear Kishorekumar, >>> >>> I'm a Python aficionado but I had spent a lot of time with different >>> languages before settling in on Python (Java, C, JS, Ruby, R...). I can >>> wholeheartedly recommend it for (what I guess) is your use case and in >>> general as a first programming language to learn. Why? >>> >>> 1. Python is super easy to learn in comparison to other programming >>> languages. It has an easy syntax and you don=E2=80=99t have to worry ab= out a lot of >>> technical things such as memory management, strict typing, garbage >>> collection etc. >>> >>> 2. There are wonderful free resources, as others mentioned. I can >>> recommend A Byte of Python as a starting point >>> https://python.swaroopch.com. >>> >>> 3. Python Standard Library offers great solutions for common problems >>> (such as file handling, http, json interfaces etc) >>> >>> 4. Python docs is something that you can actually read and understand. >>> Same thing with error messages. These can be cryptic in other languages >>> (like R!:) >>> >>> 5. There is the Jupyter ecosystem for interactive programming in Python= . >>> I know, I know, it supports other languages as well but Python Jupyter >>> Kernels are really great (in comparison to R kernels for example). Also= , >>> Google Colab provides a free, interactive Python environment without th= e >>> need to setup anything. >>> >>> 6. Most ML is done in Python and TensorFlow and PyTorch are industry >>> standards. >>> >>> 7. Librosa (https://librosa.org) and Surfboard ( >>> https://github.com/novoic/surfboard) are great packages for audio >>> feature extraction if you want to do that. >>> >>> 8. Python is fun! Try `import this` to see what I mean. >>> >>> >>> That said, Python can be kind of slow in some cases (though you can >>> overcome this easily if you know what you=E2=80=99re doing). If you rea= lly need the >>> speed, Julia promises to be as efficient and as fast as C. To be honest >>> though, in 3+ years of working in Python the whole =E2=80=9CPython is s= low=E2=80=9D thing >>> didn=E2=80=99t really bother me. I would say it=E2=80=99s faster than R= , at least in my use >>> cases. >>> >>> Also, if you need proper statistics, R might be a better choice. >>> Statsmodels is the standard package for statistics in Python and you ca= n do >>> a lot with it. Unfortunately it can be a bit challenging and the docs a= re >>> not so great. My current favourite for statistics in Python is Pingouin= ( >>> https://pingouin-stats.org), though it is missing some stuff (no mixed >>> models yet). >>> >>> Best of luck, >>> Chris >>> >>> -- >>> Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski, PhD >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Psychology >>> Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk, Poland >>> http://mug.edu.pl | http://kbas.gumed.edu.pl >>> >>> On 2 Mar 2021, at 09:50, kishorekumar Bharshetty < >>> kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> I am Kishorekumar Bharshetty, Audiologist from India. I am currently >>> working as an Clinical Audiologist at Amplifon India Pvt Ltd. >>> >>> I am curious to learn about Python software which is a language coding >>> software, thinking that it will help me to set a base to learn more abo= ut >>> Machine Learning technology. >>> >>> I wanted to know, whether learning Python software for an audiologist i= s >>> a good idea? If yes, how can I be benefitted with this in future? >>> >>> Kindly, help me with this query. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, and Regards >>> Kishorekumar Bharshetty >>> Audiologist >>> Amplifon India Pvt Ltd, India >>> +91-9663148361 >>> kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> > > -- > Timothy Beechey, PhD > Postdoctoral Associate > Department of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences > 215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 > University of Minnesota > tbeechey@xxxxxxxx > --=20 Sharath Chandra Ram PhD Fellow @xxxxxxxx://atec.utdallas.edu/ <https://atec.utdallas.edu/>Machine Listening & Computational Media Art Applied Cognition in HCI & Virtual Environments Information, Media & Technology Policy Alumni@xxxxxxxx School of Informatics Signal Lab : radiospock.tumblr.com Twitter @xxxxxxxx --000000000000bfb41b05bcedfc94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear Kishore</div><div><ul><li>I wou= ld agree with Richard on the learning curve and mind benders associated=C2= =A0with R (For the rest of list members: similar to frustration with say, S= upercollider), and it is not quite suited to what you want to be doing. As = others have stated, Python is a great route for you not only to get up and = running fast, but you will have access to a lot of audio/signal processing = and machine learning libraries.</li><li><div>Personally, i've been fort= unate to have been into C/C++ since high school (Note Matlab, Python, etc e= tc all are written using C/C++), so I am agnostic and=C2=A0can shift to any= language, <b>but I greatly benefitted with a week of face 2 face sessions = with seasoned python professional geeks.</b></div></li><li><i>Please feel f= ree to=C2=A0 message me offlist, so I can put you in touch with one of my e= x-lab colleagues in Bangalore,=C2=A0 India, a python fanatic, who now works= with the Internet Archive, and also wrote Infogami and Web.py with the lat= e Aaron Swartz=C2=A0 (also creator of Reditt). They=C2=A0really saved me a = lot of time, and are very good humans, benevolent with their time and inten= t.</i></li><li>FYI : Matlab (is not Free, and most academics use it through= their university license/ and well, corporations too because they hire aca= demics) has fast 'matrix' computation routines. However these days,= python is equally if not much faster, and allows you to deploy algorithms = on real world hardware. But you must in time also be adept at Matlab and sw= itch to Python as the need to develop for real word prototypes arises.</li>= </ul><ul><li>Having said that, many libraries used for audio processing and= analysis in MATLAB are now available=C2=A0in Python. For example :=C2=A0= =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/librosa/librosa">https://github.com/lib= rosa/librosa</a>,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PRAAT for Formant Tracking:=C2=A0 <a href=3D= "https://parselmouth.readthedocs.io/en/stable/">https://parselmouth.readthe= docs.io/en/stable/</a>=C2=A0 or even some of Richard's models=C2=A0orig= inally=C2=A0written in Matlab like this :=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.co= m/sciforce/lyon">https://github.com/sciforce/lyon</a>=C2=A0 , many more coc= hlear models etc....</li></ul><div>End of the day, algorithms for signal pr= ocessing and eventual machine learning, will have to be ported to run on em= bedded hardware (these days the mobile phone is emerging to be a great comp= uter), with frameworks like TinyML. <a href=3D"https://online-learning.harv= ard.edu/course/fundamentals-tinyml?delta=3D0">https://online-learning.harva= rd.edu/course/fundamentals-tinyml?delta=3D0</a></div><div><br></div><div>Re= gards</div></div><div>Sharath Chandra Ramakrishan</div><div><br></div><div>= =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 6, 202= 1 at 11:41 PM Timothy Beechey <<a href=3D"mailto:0000014613841c26-dmarc-= request@xxxxxxxx">0000014613841c26-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx</a>= > wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div= dir=3D"ltr"><div>The different languages you mention are each based on dif= ferent programming paradigms (e.g. object-oriented, functional, etc.). This= is often a source of confusion and frustration when moving from one langua= ge to another. Dismissing a widely used language because it is different fr= om what you are used to or expecting tends to offend people who use that la= nguage productively.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Tim<br></div><br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 6, 202= 1 at 12:48 AM Richard F. Lyon <<a href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" targe= t=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20= 4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:small= ">>=C2=A0 =C2=A0if you need proper statistics, R might be a better choic= e</div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:sma= ll">I'm mostly a Matlab user for the last 30 years or so, but getting t= o be more comfortable with Python.=C2=A0 I had occasion=C2=A0to do a bit of= R programming, and it was pretty horrible, with what seemed like a pretty = irregular syntax and unpredictable set of idioms.=C2=A0 Don't go there.= </div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:smal= l">Dick</div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 = at 9:19 PM Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski <<a href=3D"mailto:k.basinski@xxxxxxxx= du.pl" target=3D"_blank">k.basinski@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le= ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Dear Kishorekumar,<div= ><br></div><div>I'm a Python aficionado but I had spent a lot of time w= ith different languages before settling in on Python (Java, C, JS, Ruby, R.= ..). I can wholeheartedly recommend it for (what I guess) is your use case = and in general as a first programming language to learn. Why?</div><div><br= ></div><div>1. Python is super easy to learn in comparison to other program= ming languages. It has an easy syntax and you don=E2=80=99t have to worry a= bout a lot of technical things such as memory management, strict typing, ga= rbage collection etc.</div><div><br></div><div>2. There are wonderful free = resources, as others mentioned. I can recommend A Byte of Python as a start= ing point=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://python.swaroopch.com" target=3D"_blank">h= ttps://python.swaroopch.com</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>3. Python Standar= d Library offers great solutions for common problems (such as file handling= , http, json interfaces etc)</div><div><br></div><div>4. Python docs is som= ething that you can actually read and understand. Same thing with error mes= sages. These can be cryptic in other languages (like R!:)</div><div><br></d= iv><div>5. There is the Jupyter ecosystem for interactive programming in Py= thon. I know, I know, it supports other languages as well but Python Jupyte= r Kernels are really great (in comparison to R kernels for example). Also, = Google Colab provides a free, interactive Python environment without the ne= ed to setup anything.</div><div><br></div><div>6. Most ML is done in Python= and TensorFlow and PyTorch are industry standards.</div><div><br></div><di= v>7. Librosa (<a href=3D"https://librosa.org" target=3D"_blank">https://lib= rosa.org</a>) and Surfboard (<a href=3D"https://github.com/novoic/surfboard= " target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/novoic/surfboard</a>) are great pack= ages for audio feature extraction if you want to do that.</div><div><br></d= iv><div>8. Python is fun! Try `import this` to see what I mean.</div><div><= br></div><div><br></div><div>That said, Python can be kind of slow in some = cases (though you can overcome this easily if you know what you=E2=80=99re = doing). If you really need the speed, Julia promises to be as efficient and= as fast as C. To be honest though, in 3+ years of working in Python the wh= ole =E2=80=9CPython is slow=E2=80=9D thing didn=E2=80=99t really bother me.= I would say it=E2=80=99s faster than R, at least in my use cases.</div><di= v><br></div><div>Also, if you need proper statistics, R might be a better c= hoice. Statsmodels is the standard package for statistics in Python and you= can do a lot with it. Unfortunately it can be a bit challenging and the do= cs are not so great. My current favourite for statistics in Python is Pingo= uin (<a href=3D"https://pingouin-stats.org" target=3D"_blank">https://pingo= uin-stats.org</a>), though it is missing some stuff (no mixed models yet).<= /div><div><br></div><div>Best of luck,</div><div>Chris</div><div><br><div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-alig= n:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing= :0px;text-decoration:none"><div>--</div><div>Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski, PhD<b= r>Assistant Professor<br>Department of Psychology<br>Medical University of = Gda=C5=84sk, Poland<br><a href=3D"http://mug.edu.pl" target=3D"_blank">http= ://mug.edu.pl</a>=C2=A0|=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://kbas.gumed.edu.pl" target= =3D"_blank">http://kbas.gumed.edu.pl</a></div></div> </div> <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 2 Mar 2021, at 09:50, kishorekum= ar Bharshetty <<a href=3D"mailto:kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_b= lank">kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"au= to">Dear all,=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">I am Kishorekumar Bharshetty, Audiolog= ist from India. I am currently working as an Clinical Audiologist at Amplif= on India Pvt Ltd.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">= I am curious to learn about Python software which is a language coding soft= ware, thinking that it will help me to set a base to learn more about Machi= ne Learning technology.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"= auto">I wanted to know, whether learning Python software for an audiologist= is a good idea? If yes, how can I be benefitted with this in future?=C2=A0= </div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kindly, help me with th= is query.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di= v><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks, and Regards</div><div dir=3D"auto">Kishorekumar= Bharshetty</div><div dir=3D"auto">Audiologist</div><div dir=3D"auto">Ampli= fon India Pvt Ltd, India</div><div dir=3D"auto">+91-9663148361</div><div di= r=3D"auto"><a href=3D"mailto:kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">k= umarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx</a>=C2=A0</div></div> </div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">= <div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Timo= thy Beechey, PhD<br></div><div>Postdoctoral Associate</div><div>Department = of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences</div><div><span><font color=3D"#888888"= ><span><font style=3D"color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px" color=3D"#88= 8888"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(= 255,255,255)">215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455= </span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102);border-bottom:1px dashe= d rgb(204,204,204)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"backgro= und-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span></span></span></span><br></span></font></= span></font></span></div><div>University of Minnesota</div><div><a href=3D"= mailto:tbeechey@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">tbeechey@xxxxxxxx</a></div></div>= </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d= iv></div> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"= class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Sharath Chandra = Ram</span><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><= /span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><p style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;f= ont-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"background-color:rg= b(255,255,255)"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,He= lvetica,sans-serif"></span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-= serif">PhD Fellow @xxxxxxxx</span><a href=3D"https://atec.utdallas.edu/" style=3D"f= ont-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">https://atec.utdal= las.edu/</a></font></span></p><p style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;= font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"background-color:r= gb(255,255,255)"><font color=3D"#000000"><a href=3D"https://atec.utdallas.e= du/" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank"></a= ><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Machine Listening &= amp; Computational Media Art</span><br style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica= ,sans-serif"></font></span></p><p style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px= ;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial= ,Helvetica,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color=3D"#00= 0000">Applied Cognition in HCI &=C2=A0Virtual Environments</font></span= ></p><p style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helve= tica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;back= ground-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color=3D"#000000">Information, Media &= amp;=C2=A0Technology=C2=A0Policy<br></font></span></p><p style=3D"margin-to= p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span sty= le=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color=3D"#000000"><span styl= e=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Alumni@xxxxxxxx School of Inf= ormatics</span><br style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Signal Lab :=C2=A0</span><a= href=3D"http://radiospock.tumblr.com/" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetic= a,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">radiospock.tumblr.com</a><br style=3D"font-= family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helveti= ca,sans-serif">Twitter @xxxxxxxx</span></font></span></p><div><br></div><= div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(68,68= ,68);font-family:Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></sp= an></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:Roboto,Helveti= ca,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div></div> --000000000000bfb41b05bcedfc94--