Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance From: "Picinali, Lorenzo" <l.picinali@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:54:19 +0000--_000_VI1PR06MB5677D23D88333807E1211F26BA6E9VI1PR06MB5677eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops...I just re-read your original message and realised that you are looki= ng to decrease the perceived distance rather than increase it. The option I suggested for the mono signal (DAW, reverb and direct ratio) i= s therefore not really available. It'll depend very much on where the signa= l was recorded: if in an anechoic space, then you can't do much other than = increasing the overall level...maybe you could look at boosting low frequen= cies simulating the proximity effect on the microphone, but that's probably= not really going to affect perception. If it has been recorded in a reverb= erant space, then you could try some dereverberation processors...some work= reasonably well (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAxXfEMKE3qo&t=3D27= s), and you can use them to make the signal drier, therefore possibly perce= ived at a closer distance. My advice is to go with the "binaural" route, therefore encode your mono so= urce in the binaural domain through a spatialiser (like the 3DTI Toolkit or= others), then use interaural differences alteration and acoustic parallax = - please note that the effect is likely to be more realistic for lateral so= urces rather than sources exactly on the front or on the back. I hope this helps Best Lorenzo -- Dr Lorenzo Picinali Reader in Audio Experience Design Dyson School of Design Engineering Imperial College London Dyson Building Imperial College Road South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158 E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<http://www.imperial.ac.uk/desi= gn-engineering-school> ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Picinali, Lorenzo <l.picinali@xxxxxxxx> Sent: 13 March 2021 07:02 To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance Dear Ashkan, if you are planning to deliver the signal in mono, then the only thing you = can play with are overall level and the ratio between dry (direct) and reve= rberant (reflected) sound - you can do this using any Digital Audio Worksta= tion (e.g. Reaper, Audacity, etc.). If you are planning to deliver this bin= aurally (e.g. through a pair of headphones), then you can possibly also pla= y with altering some interaural cues (even though these alterations are mai= nly relevant for lateral and nearfield sources). Our binaural spatialisation tool, the 3D Tune-In Toolkit, has a distance si= mulation function - you can hear a demonstration here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DosJQ0Kxv1P0 and here you can download the application you see in the video (it is under= the menu "Binaural Test Application") https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases I hope this helps. Lorenzo -- Dr Lorenzo Picinali Reader in Audio Experience Design Dyson School of Design Engineering Imperial College London Dyson Building Imperial College Road South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158 E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<http://www.imperial.ac.uk/desi= gn-engineering-school> ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Ashkan Fakhrtabatabaie <ashkantbt@xxxxxxxx> Sent: 13 March 2021 02:55 To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance This email from ashkantbt@xxxxxxxx originates from outside Imperial. Do no= t click on links and attachments unless you recognise the sender. If you tr= ust the sender, add them to your safe senders list<https://spam.ic.ac.uk/Sp= amConsole/Senders.aspx> to disable email stamping for this address. Hi all, I am working on a project in which I am trying to decrease the perceived di= stance of a sound object that was recorded in about 10 feet away from the m= icrophone. Any recommendations for a tool that you know or thoughts on how = I can make that happen? Ashkan -- Ashkan Tabatabaie , Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Assistant College of Health University of Utah Chief Executive Officer Digital Content Helix LLC 1188 E 4th Ave Salt Lake City, UT 84103 801-712-9242 --_000_VI1PR06MB5677D23D88333807E1211F26BA6E9VI1PR06MB5677eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo= ttom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Oops...I just re-read your original message and realised that you are looki= ng to decrease the perceived distance rather than increase it.</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> The option I suggested for the mono signal (DAW, reverb and direct ratio) i= s therefore not really available. It'll depend very much on where the signa= l was recorded: if in an anechoic space, then you can't do much other than = increasing the overall level...maybe you could look at boosting low frequencies simulating the proximity effect= on the microphone, but that's probably not really going to affect percepti= on. If it has been recorded in a reverberant space, then you could try some= dereverberation processors...some work reasonably well (e.g. <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAx= XfEMKE3qo&t=3D27s" id=3D"LPlnk"> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAxXfEMKE3qo&t=3D27s</a>), and you can= use them to make the signal drier, therefore possibly perceived at a close= r distance.<br> </div> <div class=3D"_Entity _EType_OWALinkPreview _EId_OWALinkPreview _EReadonly_= 1"></div> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> My advice is to go with the "binaural" route, therefore encode yo= ur mono source in the binaural domain through a spatialiser (like the 3DTI = Toolkit or others), then use interaural differences alteration and acoustic= parallax - please note that the effect is likely to be more realistic for lateral sources rather than sources exactl= y on the front or on the back.</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> I hope this helps</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Best</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Lorenzo<br> </div> <div id=3D"Signature"> <div> <div></div> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt; color= :#000000; background-color:#FFFFFF; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,san= s-serif"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); background-colo= r:rgb(255,255,255); font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"><font style=3D"font-size:10pt"></font><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"><br> -- <br> Dr Lorenzo Picinali<br> Reader in Audio Experience Design<br> Dyson School of Design Engineering<br> Imperial College London<br> Dyson Building<br> Imperial College Road<br> South Kensington, <span id=3D"ms-rterangepaste-start"></span><span>SW7 2DB<= /span><span id=3D"ms-rterangepaste-end"></span>, London <br> T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158<br> E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx<br> <font style=3D"" color=3D"3366FF"><u style=3D""><br> <a href=3D"http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali</a></u></font><br> <br> <a href=3D"http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school" target=3D"_= blank">www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school</a><br> </span></div> </div> <span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span= ><font style=3D"font-size:10pt"></font></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id=3D"appendonsend"></div> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st= yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research i= n Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Picinal= i, Lorenzo <l.picinali@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> 13 March 2021 07:02<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance</font> <div> </div> </div> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"> <!-- p {margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0} --> </style> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Dear Ashkan,</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> if you are planning to deliver the signal in mono, then the only thing you = can play with are overall level and the ratio between dry (direct) and reve= rberant (reflected) sound - you can do this using any Digital Audio Worksta= tion (e.g. Reaper, Audacity, etc.). If you are planning to deliver this binaurally (e.g. through a pair of hea= dphones), then you can possibly also play with altering some interaural cue= s (even though these alterations are mainly relevant for lateral and nearfi= eld sources). <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Our binaural spatialisation tool, the 3D Tune-In Toolkit, has a distance si= mulation function - you can hear a demonstration here:</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DosJQ0Kxv1P0" id=3D"LPlnk">http= s://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DosJQ0Kxv1P0</a></div> <div class=3D"x__Entity x__EType_OWALinkPreview x__EId_OWALinkPreview x__ER= eadonly_1"> </div> <br> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> and here you can download the application you see in the video (it is under= the menu "Binaural Test Application")<br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <a href=3D"https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases" id=3D"L= Plnk">https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases</a><br> </div> <div class=3D"x__Entity x__EType_OWALinkPreview x__EId_OWALinkPreview_1 x__= EReadonly_1"> </div> <br> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> I hope this helps.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Lorenzo<br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p= t; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div id=3D"x_Signature"> <div> <div></div> <div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt; col= or:#000000; background-color:#FFFFFF; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s= ans-serif"> <div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); background-co= lor:rgb(255,255,255); font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"><font style=3D"font-size:10pt"></font><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"><br> -- <br> Dr Lorenzo Picinali<br> Reader in Audio Experience Design<br> Dyson School of Design Engineering<br> Imperial College London<br> Dyson Building<br> Imperial College Road<br> South Kensington, <span id=3D"x_ms-rterangepaste-start"></span><span>SW7 2D= B</span><span id=3D"x_ms-rterangepaste-end"></span>, London <br> T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158<br> E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx<br> <font color=3D"3366FF" style=3D""><u style=3D""><br> <a href=3D"http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali</a></u></font><br> <br> <a href=3D"http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school" target=3D"_= blank">www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school</a><br> </span></div> </div> <span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"></span= ><font style=3D"font-size:10pt"></font></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id=3D"x_appendonsend"></div> <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" = color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research= in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Ashka= n Fakhrtabatabaie <ashkantbt@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> 13 March 2021 02:55<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Subject:</b> [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <table class=3D"x_x_MsoNormalTable" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" bor= der=3D"1" style=3D""> <tbody> <tr style=3D""> <td style=3D"border-top:#f0f0f0; border-right:#f0f0f0; background:#ffffcc; = border-bottom:#f0f0f0; padding-bottom:0cm; padding-top:0cm; padding-left:0c= m; border-left:#f0f0f0; padding-right:0cm"> <p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"font= -size:12pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><font size=3D"2">This= email from ashkantbt@xxxxxxxx originates from outside Imperial. Do not cl= ick on links and attachments unless you recognise the sender. If you trust the sender, add them to your <a href=3D"https://s= pam.ic.ac.uk/SpamConsole/Senders.aspx"> safe senders list</a> to disable email stamping for this address. </font></= span></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <p> </p> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> Hi all,</div> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> I am working on a project in which I am trying to decrease the pe= rceived distance of a sound object that was recorded in about 10 feet away = from the microphone. Any recommendations for a tool that you know or though= ts on how I can make that happen?</div> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> Ashkan</div> <div class=3D"x_x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; fon= t-size:small"> <br> </div> -- <br> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_x_gmail_signature"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div><font face=3D"garamond, times new roman, serif"><br> </font></div> <div> <div><font color=3D"#444444"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><b>Ashkan Tab= atabaie</b> <div style=3D"display:inline"><b>, </b></div> </font><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Ph.D. </span></fon= t></div> <div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Postdoctoral Resear= ch Assistant</font></div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">College of Health U= niversity of Utah</font></div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Chief Executive Off= icer</font></div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Digital Content Hel= ix LLC</font></div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">1188 E 4th Ave</fon= t></div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Salt Lake City, UT = 84103</font></div> </div> <div><font color=3D"#444444" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">801-712-9242</font>= </div> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=3D"garamond, times new roman, ser= if"><br> </font></div> </div> <div> <div> <div><font face=3D"garamond, times new roman, serif"><br> </font> <div><font face=3D"garamond, times new roman, serif"><br> </font><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_VI1PR06MB5677D23D88333807E1211F26BA6E9VI1PR06MB5677eurp_--