Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Query about Python software From: "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:10:16 -0700--0000000000000349ce05bd957dda Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000349cc05bd957dd9" --0000000000000349cc05bd957dd9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Obviously I never used R enough to get productive with it and to get over the newcomers impression, which he states well: "R is a shockingly dreadful language for an exceptionally useful data analysis environment. The more you learn about the R language, the worse it will feel. The development environment suffers from literally decades of accretion of stupid hacks from a community containing, to a first-order approximation, zero software engineers.1 <http://arrgh.tim-smith.us/#fn:engineers> R makes me want to kick things almost every time I use it." Dick On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:44 PM David Jackson Morris <dmorris@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > This is just a non judgy comment. I use R on a daily basis and to hold o= n > to a semblance of sanity I find this blog quite useful - > http://arrgh.tim-smith.us > > > > Cheers > > David > > > > > > *David Jackson Morris* > > Associate Professor/Lektor > > > > *University of Copenhagen/K=C3=B8benhavns Universitet* > > Speech Pathology and Audiology/Audiologop=C3=A6di > > Department of Nordic Studies and Linguistics/Institut for Nordiske Studie= r > og Sprogvidenskab > > Emil Holms Kanal 2 > > 2300 K=C3=B8benhavn S > > > > Department Homepage > <https://nors.ku.dk/english/staff/?pure=3Den/persons/398661> > > > > > > [image: Title: SD_Logo] - > > > > S=C3=A5dan beskytter vi persondata > <https://informationssikkerhed.ku.dk/persondatabeskyttelse/privatlivspoli= tik/> > > > > > > > > *Fra: *AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception < > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> p=C3=A5 vegne af Ronald van Elburg < > RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx> > *Svar til: *"RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx" <RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx> > *Dato: *s=C3=B8ndag den 14. marts 2021 kl. 11.50 > *Til: *"AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > *Emne: *Re: Query about Python software > > > > Dear Tim, > > I might have been responding to something I perceived in your email rathe= r > than something that is there. > > I think you were right on pointing out that bashing a programming languag= e > serves no purpose. However, and that is probably something I perceived in > your message but don't find on rereading, one can therefore not dismiss t= he > possibility that a sensible comparison can be made. I do think we should = be > able to say something along the lines of '(programming language) X is not > suitable for Y because of Z' without worrying that someone will be > offended. I thought the latter statement was in disagreement with what yo= u > wrote. > > I like to apologize for misrepresenting your position. > > Kind regards, > > Ronald van Elburg > > > > On 3/8/2021 5:32 PM, Timothy Beechey wrote: > > Ronald: > > > > What is not right about what I said? Note that I did not advocate for the > use of a particular language. You are correct that different languages ar= e > more or less suitable for different applications. You are also correct th= at > Python is rightly considered a relatively easy language for novice > programmers. Neither of these points are inconsistent with what I said. M= y > point is that disparaging other people's tools of choice, as was done by = an > earlier poster, is unnecessary in the course of advocating for whichever > tool you wish to advocate. If someone finds a language inconsistent, > unpredictable or horrible it is often because they are expecting it to be > like another language they are more familiar with. Such differences are > particularly noticeable when the languages in question are based in > different paradigms. For example, a functional language such as R is base= d > on concepts like immutability which is very useful for data analysis but > requires different memory usage and programming style. Again, I am not > advocating that the original poster use R. I am suggesting that people > refrain from attacking other people's tools of choice since that is reall= y > an equal opportunity passtime. > > > > Tim > > > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 11:14 PM Ronald van Elburg <RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > Dear All, > > Tim is right and not right about dismissing a language. Most popular > languages have a target application for which they are well suited. For > novices some languages are however more suited than others. > > I made a switch from Matlab to Python in 2011 after also briefly > considering octave. > > What drove that switch was a combination of developments: > > - I was increasingly frustrated with not being able to offer my students > the same tool as I had available. With standalone licenses for Matlab wit= h > required toolboxes coming at a price of 1200 euro's students where not ab= le > to afford themselves a license. Of course many students find their way > around this, but we should teach them to use legal options. > > - We were developing an IoT application which made the price tag mentione= d > above even more problematic. Matlab seems to have made policy changes her= e, > but, alas for them, they had lost me already. > > - Python was very much mature and supported by a large community with > also involvement from some larger companies. This is an important aspect = in > choosing open source software. Recent example of a failing choice: I have > been using portaudio with the pyaudio Python wrapper but because the > community was small these are now effectively discontinued projects and I > am forced to find new solutions. That means I have to refactor and redo a > lot of work. Alternatively, it is possible to take over maintenance of th= e > module but with complex software that is often not a feasible option. > > - Python was designed with readability in mind which makes it superior to > most other languages when teaching novice programmers. > > - Python had and has many extensions in the form of community supported > modules. In particular numpy makes it possible to work with numerical dat= a > in a way very similar to Matlab's handling of matrices and arrays. > > - Python had good support for visualization with the Matplotlib module. > > - Python supported parallel processing (in its infancy, but it did) > > Most of these considerations still stand and because of the large > community other aspects mostly improved: > > - There is more choice for visualization now with modules like Seaborn an= d > Bokeh and probably others as well. > > - There are the very nice Jupyter notebooks (as is encoded in the name > these are available for Julia, Python and R). Which allow you to create > documents which mix code, text and visualizations. > > - Strong support for deep learning and machine learning in general. > > - Python interfaces very well with OpenCV for image processing > > Still Matlab also developed: > > - they support compilation of Matlab code to some IoT devices. Something = I > haven't found for Python yet. Although there is now micropython which als= o > serves similar platforms. > > - they support visual programming with Simulink (this is not new, but I > don't think Python caught up) > > In functionality I think we mostly see convergence between general purpos= e > programming languages. And with interoperability added to the mix > functionality is often not the right guide to make a choice. R can for > example be called from Python and I suppose the opposite is also true. > > Python has also effectively replaced some special purpose scripting > languages. The example I know is the NEURON simulator which used Hoc > originally, but moved to Python as the main scripting language. Also > popular databases often have a Python interface. Again this is probably a > side effect of the community size and I guess R also supports most > databases. For Python this applies to most scientific software: many of > them offer a Python interface. > > I think several of the Ten Simple Rules articles from PLOS Computational > Biology are also worth reading in this context: > > Ten simple rules for biologists learning to program: > https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.= 1005871 > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjour= nals.plos.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.100587= 1&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7= Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273240950%7CUnknown%7C= TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0= %3D%7C1000&sdata=3DiyMTuVHBjo%2BbdaHXJLHG1GRTjoX3w6cnx0Cz5X6kacY%3D&reserve= d=3D0> > Ten Simple Rules for Digital Data Storage: > https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.= 1005097 > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjour= nals.plos.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.100509= 7&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7= Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273240950%7CUnknown%7C= TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0= %3D%7C1000&sdata=3D11wbnElkE%2B0BLzzpW%2F%2FkgP9%2B4OkhAXYpmPUaFrN5Nx4%3D&r= eserved=3D0> > Ten simple rules for documenting scientific software: > https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.= 1006561 > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjour= nals.plos.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.100656= 1&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7= Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273250952%7CUnknown%7C= TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0= %3D%7C1000&sdata=3DBatxaa%2BbYherAJTMMFf6PYQGCC4%2FRr3HfOwVvlctt8o%3D&reser= ved=3D0> > Ten simple rules to colorize biological data visualization: > https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.= 1008259 > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjour= nals.plos.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.100825= 9&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7= Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273250952%7CUnknown%7C= TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0= %3D%7C1000&sdata=3DClUUud1EOrkzkbOL4XPeAL2%2B7QjD6YSKGwbnfwhVvPA%3D&reserve= d=3D0> > > I would be tempted to say Python is the language of choice to teach or to > learn when starting to program for scientific purposes. But your personal > context can give counter indications. So it is probably wise to ask aroun= d > what other people are using in the same work environment, but keeping in > mind that these choices might be driven more by tradition or personal > history than a critical evaluation of the options available. And then, ea= ch > time when you start a large project it is worth to reevaluate the languag= e > and software choices. > > Kind regards, > > Ronald van Elburg > > > > > > > > On 3/6/2021 1:46 PM, Timothy Beechey wrote: > > The different languages you mention are each based on different > programming paradigms (e.g. object-oriented, functional, etc.). This is > often a source of confusion and frustration when moving from one language > to another. Dismissing a widely used language because it is different fro= m > what you are used to or expecting tends to offend people who use that > language productively. > > > > Tim > > > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:48 AM Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > if you need proper statistics, R might be a better choice > > > > I'm mostly a Matlab user for the last 30 years or so, but getting to be > more comfortable with Python. I had occasion to do a bit of R programmin= g, > and it was pretty horrible, with what seemed like a pretty irregular synt= ax > and unpredictable set of idioms. Don't go there. > > > > Dick > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:19 PM Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski <k.basinski@xxxxxxxx= edu.pl> > wrote: > > Dear Kishorekumar, > > > > I'm a Python aficionado but I had spent a lot of time with different > languages before settling in on Python (Java, C, JS, Ruby, R...). I can > wholeheartedly recommend it for (what I guess) is your use case and in > general as a first programming language to learn. Why? > > > > 1. Python is super easy to learn in comparison to other programming > languages. It has an easy syntax and you don=E2=80=99t have to worry abou= t a lot of > technical things such as memory management, strict typing, garbage > collection etc. > > > > 2. There are wonderful free resources, as others mentioned. I can > recommend A Byte of Python as a starting point > https://python.swaroopch.com > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fpyth= on.swaroopch.com%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d= 9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C6375095162732= 60939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I= k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DZZYrhZztkz3POhkgT83WYlhnMHlyGY8RFZN7j%= 2BkwTiA%3D&reserved=3D0> > . > > > > 3. Python Standard Library offers great solutions for common problems > (such as file handling, http, json interfaces etc) > > > > 4. Python docs is something that you can actually read and understand. > Same thing with error messages. These can be cryptic in other languages > (like R!:) > > > > 5. There is the Jupyter ecosystem for interactive programming in Python. = I > know, I know, it supports other languages as well but Python Jupyter > Kernels are really great (in comparison to R kernels for example). Also, > Google Colab provides a free, interactive Python environment without the > need to setup anything. > > > > 6. Most ML is done in Python and TensorFlow and PyTorch are industry > standards. > > > > 7. Librosa (https://librosa.org > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flibr= osa.org%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e= 38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273260939%7CU= nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC= JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D2UnIk5Z%2BzrXXIWf1%2BhSGpK46Vsa2Cq6O%2BZ4FdWzt6= gk%3D&reserved=3D0>) > and Surfboard (https://github.com/novoic/surfboard > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith= ub.com%2Fnovoic%2Fsurfboard&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da9= 62ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C63750= 9516273270942%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL= CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DIFFMLoiSLxw2VW0Gi3oJjLZwbiuWZV= dtDdz%2BkPil93A%3D&reserved=3D0>) > are great packages for audio feature extraction if you want to do that. > > > > 8. Python is fun! Try `import this` to see what I mean. > > > > > > That said, Python can be kind of slow in some cases (though you can > overcome this easily if you know what you=E2=80=99re doing). If you reall= y need the > speed, Julia promises to be as efficient and as fast as C. To be honest > though, in 3+ years of working in Python the whole =E2=80=9CPython is slo= w=E2=80=9D thing > didn=E2=80=99t really bother me. I would say it=E2=80=99s faster than R, = at least in my use > cases. > > > > Also, if you need proper statistics, R might be a better choice. > Statsmodels is the standard package for statistics in Python and you can = do > a lot with it. Unfortunately it can be a bit challenging and the docs are > not so great. My current favourite for statistics in Python is Pingouin ( > https://pingouin-stats.org > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fping= ouin-stats.org%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d= 3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273270= 942%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1= haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3Drqb%2BncZrSKVDbPcMZkQHagEzcIuQOJqBcNvbcp= Spsto%3D&reserved=3D0>), > though it is missing some stuff (no mixed models yet). > > > > Best of luck, > > Chris > > > > -- > > Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski, PhD > Assistant Professor > Department of Psychology > Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk, Poland > http://mug.edu.pl > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmug.e= du.pl%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38= 700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273280928%7CUnk= nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX= VCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DqxowLN0KJqQFcdBeHX8FtQybb7o8hbAU9%2FSvxbR78zE%3D&= reserved=3D0> > | http://kbas.gumed.edu.pl > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkbas.= gumed.edu.pl%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d39= 08d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C63750951627328092= 8%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha= WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DSVdNV%2BYRm%2F85DI6oxR0W02go842JwMpGvVAvMs= XAqHk%3D&reserved=3D0> > > > > On 2 Mar 2021, at 09:50, kishorekumar Bharshetty < > kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > I am Kishorekumar Bharshetty, Audiologist from India. I am currently > working as an Clinical Audiologist at Amplifon India Pvt Ltd. > > > > I am curious to learn about Python software which is a language coding > software, thinking that it will help me to set a base to learn more about > Machine Learning technology. > > > > I wanted to know, whether learning Python software for an audiologist is = a > good idea? If yes, how can I be benefitted with this in future? > > > > Kindly, help me with this query. > > > > > > Thanks, and Regards > > Kishorekumar Bharshetty > > Audiologist > > Amplifon India Pvt Ltd, India > > +91-9663148361 > > kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx > > > > > > -- > > Timothy Beechey, PhD > > Postdoctoral Associate > > Department of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences > > 215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 > > University of Minnesota > > tbeechey@xxxxxxxx > > > > -- > > Timothy Beechey, PhD > > Postdoctoral Associate > > Department of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences > > 215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 > > University of Minnesota > > tbeechey@xxxxxxxx > > --0000000000000349cc05bd957dd9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Obv= iously I never used R enough to get productive with it and to get over the = newcomers impression, which he states well:</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul= t" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-size:small">"R is a shockingly dreadful language for an excep= tionally useful data=20 analysis environment. The more you learn about the R language, the worse it will feel. The development environment suffers from literally=20 decades of accretion of stupid hacks from a community containing, to a=20 first-order approximation, zero software engineers.<sup id=3D"gmail-fnref:e= ngineers"><a href=3D"http://arrgh.tim-smith.us/#fn:engineers" class=3D"gmai= l-footnote">1</a></sup> R makes me want to kick things almost every time I = use it."</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><= br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class= =3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021= at 9:44 PM David Jackson Morris <<a href=3D"mailto:dmorris@xxxxxxxx">d= morris@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex"> <div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang=3D"DA"> <div class=3D"gmail-m_5434534890229007194WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This is just a non judgy commen= t.=C2=A0 I use R on a daily basis and to hold on to a semblance of sanity I= find this blog quite useful - <a href=3D"http://arrgh.tim-smith.us" target=3D"_blank">http://arrgh.tim-sm= ith.us</a><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">David<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"EN-U= S">David Jackson Morris</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family= :"Times New Roman",serif;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></= u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"EN-US">= Associate Professor/Lektor</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:= "Times New Roman",serif;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"EN-US">= =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roma= n",serif;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"EN-U= S">University of Copenhagen/K=C3=B8benhavns Universitet</span></b><span sty= le=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:bl= ack" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"EN-US">= Speech Pathology and Audiology/Audiologop=C3=A6di<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray">Department of N= ordic Studies and Linguistics/Institut for Nordiske Studier og Sprogvidensk= ab<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray" lang=3D"SV">Emi= l Holms Kanal 2</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times= New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray">2300 K=C3=B8ben= havn S<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray"><u></u>=C2=A0<u= ></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray"><a href=3D"http= s://nors.ku.dk/english/staff/?pure=3Den/persons/398661" target=3D"_blank"><= span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">Department Homepage</span></a></span><sp= an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;co= lor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray">=C2=A0</span><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;c= olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray">=C2=A0</span><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;c= olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:= 7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray"><img style=3D"= width: 2.625in; height: 0.9062in;" id=3D"gmail-m_5434534890229007194Billede= _x0020_1" src=3D"cid:17836a5ebe64cff311" alt=3D"Title: SD_Logo" width=3D"25= 2" height=3D"87" border=3D"0">=C2=A0 -</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman&qu= ot;,serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:7= .5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray">=C2=A0</span><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;c= olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Time= s New Roman",serif;color:black"><a href=3D"https://informationssikkerh= ed.ku.dk/persondatabeskyttelse/privatlivspolitik/" target=3D"_blank"><span = style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:g= ray;text-decoration:none">S=C3=A5dan beskytter vi persondata</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <div style=3D"border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;borde= r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Fra: <= /span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">AUDITORY - Research in= Auditory Perception <<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target= =3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>> p=C3=A5 vegne af Ronald van El= burg <<a href=3D"mailto:RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">RonaldA= J@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Svar til: </b>"<a href=3D"mailto:RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_= blank">RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx= BURG.EU" target=3D"_blank">RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Dato: </b>s=C3=B8ndag den 14. marts 2021 kl. 11.50<br> <b>Til: </b>"<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_bl= ank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= S.MCGILL.CA" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Emne: </b>Re: Query about Python software<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <p>Dear Tim,<u></u><u></u></p> <p>I might have been responding to something I perceived in your email rath= er than something that is there. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>I think you were right on pointing out that bashing a programming langua= ge serves no purpose. However, and that is probably something I perceived i= n your message but don't find on rereading, one can therefore not dismi= ss the possibility that a sensible comparison can be made. I do think we should be able to say something along the lines= of '(programming language) X is not suitable for Y because of Z' w= ithout worrying that someone will be offended. I thought the latter stateme= nt was in disagreement with what you wrote. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>I like to apologize for misrepresenting your position.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></p> <p>Ronald van Elburg<u></u><u></u></p> <p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 3/8/2021 5:32 PM, Timothy Beechey wrote:<u></u><u= ></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ronald:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">What is not right about what I said? Note that I did= not advocate for the use of a particular language. You are correct that di= fferent languages are more or less suitable for different applications. You= are also correct that Python is rightly considered a relatively easy language for novice programmers. Neither of t= hese points are inconsistent with what I said. My point is that disparaging= other people's tools of choice, as was done by an earlier poster, is u= nnecessary in the course of advocating for whichever tool you wish to advocate. If someone finds a language incon= sistent, unpredictable or horrible it is often because they are expecting i= t to be like another language they are more familiar with. Such differences= are particularly noticeable when the languages in question are based in different paradigms. For example, a= functional language such as R is based on concepts like immutability which= is very useful for data analysis but requires different memory usage and p= rogramming style. Again, I am not advocating that the original poster use R. I am suggesting that people ref= rain from attacking other people's tools of choice since that is really= an equal opportunity passtime.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 11:14 PM Ronald van Elburg &l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">RonaldAJ@xxxxxxxx= burg.eu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg= b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium= medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <div> <p>Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p> <p>Tim is right and not right about dismissing a language. Most popular lan= guages have a target application for which they are well suited. For novice= s some languages are however more suited than others. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>I made a switch from Matlab to Python in 2011 after also briefly conside= ring octave. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>What drove that switch was a combination of developments:<u></u><u></u><= /p> <p>=C2=A0- I was increasingly frustrated with not being able to offer my st= udents the same tool as I had available. With standalone licenses for Matla= b with required toolboxes coming at a price of 1200 euro's students whe= re not able to afford themselves a license. Of course many students find their way around this, but we should teach th= em to use legal options.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>- We were developing an IoT application which made the price tag mention= ed above even more problematic. Matlab seems to have made policy changes he= re, but, alas for them, they had lost me already.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>-=C2=A0 Python was very much mature and supported by a large community w= ith also involvement from some larger companies. This is an important aspec= t in choosing open source software. Recent example of a failing choice: I h= ave been using portaudio with the pyaudio Python wrapper but because the community was small these are now effective= ly discontinued projects and I am forced to find new solutions. That means = I have to refactor and redo a lot of work. Alternatively, it is possible to= take over maintenance of the module but with complex=C2=A0 software that is often not a feasible option.<u></u= ><u></u></p> <p>- Python was designed with readability in mind which makes it superior t= o most other languages when teaching novice programmers. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>- Python had and has many extensions in the form of community supported = modules. In particular numpy makes it possible to work with numerical data = in a way very similar to Matlab's handling of matrices and arrays.<u></= u><u></u></p> <p>- Python had good support for visualization with the Matplotlib module.<= u></u><u></u></p> <p>- Python supported parallel processing (in its infancy, but it did)<u></= u><u></u></p> <p>Most of these considerations still stand and because of the large commun= ity other aspects mostly improved:<u></u><u></u></p> <p>- There is more choice for visualization now with modules like Seaborn a= nd Bokeh and probably others as well. =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p> <p>- There are the very nice Jupyter notebooks (as is encoded in the name t= hese are available for Julia, Python and R). Which allow you to create docu= ments which mix code, text and visualizations.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>- Strong support for deep learning and machine learning in general. <u><= /u><u></u></p> <p>- Python interfaces very well with OpenCV for image processing<u></u><u>= </u></p> <p>Still Matlab also developed:<u></u><u></u></p> <p>- they support compilation of Matlab code to some IoT devices. Something= I haven't found for Python yet. Although there is now micropython whic= h also serves similar platforms.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>- they support visual programming with Simulink (this is not new, but I = don't think Python caught up)<u></u><u></u></p> <p>In functionality I think we mostly see convergence between general purpo= se programming languages. And with interoperability added to the mix functi= onality is often not the right guide to make a choice. R can for example be= called from Python and I suppose the opposite is also true. <u></u><u></u></p> <p>Python has also effectively replaced some special purpose scripting lang= uages. The example I know is the NEURON simulator which used Hoc originally= , but moved to Python as the main scripting language.=C2=A0 Also popular da= tabases often have a Python interface. Again this is probably a side effect of the community size and I guess R a= lso supports most databases. For Python this applies to most scientific sof= tware: many of them offer a Python interface.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>I think several of the Ten Simple Rules articles from PLOS Computational= Biology are also worth reading in this context:<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ten simple rules for biologists learning to program:= <a href=3D"https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%= 2F%2Fjournals.plos.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pc= bi.1005871&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d390= 8d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273240950= %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW= wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DiyMTuVHBjo%2BbdaHXJLHG1GRTjoX3w6cnx0Cz5= X6kacY%3D&reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"> https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.10= 05871</a><br> Ten Simple Rules for Digital Data Storage: <a href=3D"https://eur02.safelin= ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjournals.plos.org%2Fploscomp= biol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1005097&data=3D04%7C01%7Cd= morris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af8= 98c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273240950%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi= MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata= =3D11wbnElkE%2B0BLzzpW%2F%2FkgP9%2B4OkhAXYpmPUaFrN5Nx4%3D&reserved=3D0"= target=3D"_blank"> https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.10= 05097</a><br> Ten simple rules for documenting scientific software: <a href=3D"https://eu= r02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjournals.plos.org= %2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1006561&data=3D= 04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91= cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273250952%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb= 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C100= 0&sdata=3DBatxaa%2BbYherAJTMMFf6PYQGCC4%2FRr3HfOwVvlctt8o%3D&reserv= ed=3D0" target=3D"_blank"> https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.10= 06561</a><br> Ten simple rules to colorize biological data visualization: <a href=3D"http= s://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjournals.pl= os.org%2Fploscompbiol%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1008259&d= ata=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3= 927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273250952%7CUnknown%7CTWF= pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D= %7C1000&sdata=3DClUUud1EOrkzkbOL4XPeAL2%2B7QjD6YSKGwbnfwhVvPA%3D&re= served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"> https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=3D10.1371/journal.pcbi.10= 08259</a><u></u><u></u></p> <p>I would be tempted to say Python is the language of choice to teach or t= o learn when starting to program for scientific purposes. But your personal= context can give counter indications. So it is probably wise to ask around= what other people are using in the same work environment, but keeping in mind that these choices might be= driven more by tradition or personal history than a critical evaluation of= the options available. And then, each time when you start a large project = it is worth to reevaluate the language and software choices.<u></u><u></u></p> <p>Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></p> <p>Ronald van Elburg<u></u><u></u></p> <p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 3/6/2021 1:46 PM, Timothy Beechey wrote:<u></u><u= ></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The different languages you mention are each based o= n different programming paradigms (e.g. object-oriented, functional, etc.).= This is often a source of confusion and frustration when moving from one l= anguage to another. Dismissing a widely used language because it is different from what you are used to or expecti= ng tends to offend people who use that language productively.<u></u><u></u>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:48 AM Richard F. Lyon <= <a href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>&= gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg= b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium= medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">>=C2=A0 =C2=A0if y= ou need proper statistics, R might be a better choice<u></u><u></u></span><= /p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">I'm mostly a Matl= ab user for the last 30 years or so, but getting to be more comfortable wit= h Python.=C2=A0 I had occasion=C2=A0to do a bit of R programming, and it wa= s pretty horrible, with what seemed like a pretty irregular syntax and unpredictable set of idioms.=C2=A0 Don't go there= .<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Dick<u></u><u></u></s= pan></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:19 PM Krzysztof Basi=C5=84s= ki <<a href=3D"mailto:k.basinski@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">k.basin= ski@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg= b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium= medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Kishorekumar, <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm a Python aficionado but I had spent a lot of= time with different languages before settling in on Python (Java, C, JS, R= uby, R...). I can wholeheartedly recommend it for (what I guess) is your us= e case and in general as a first programming language to learn. Why?<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. Python is super easy to learn in comparison to ot= her programming languages. It has an easy syntax and you don=E2=80=99t have= to worry about a lot of technical things such as memory management, strict= typing, garbage collection etc.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">2. There are wonderful free resources, as others men= tioned. I can recommend A Byte of Python as a starting point=C2=A0<a href= =3D"https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fpyt= hon.swaroopch.com%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962a= c459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C63750951= 6273260939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB= TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DZZYrhZztkz3POhkgT83WYlhnMHlyG= Y8RFZN7j%2BkwTiA%3D&reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://python.swar= oopch.com</a>.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">3. Python Standard Library offers great solutions fo= r common problems (such as file handling, http, json interfaces etc)<u></u>= <u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">4. Python docs is something that you can actually re= ad and understand. Same thing with error messages. These can be cryptic in = other languages (like R!:)<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">5. There is the Jupyter ecosystem for interactive pr= ogramming in Python. I know, I know, it supports other languages as well bu= t Python Jupyter Kernels are really great (in comparison to R kernels for e= xample). Also, Google Colab provides a free, interactive Python environment without the need to setup anything.= <u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">6. Most ML is done in Python and TensorFlow and PyTo= rch are industry standards.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">7. Librosa (<a href=3D"https://eur02.safelinks.prote= ction.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flibrosa.org%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7C= dmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af= 898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273260939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo= iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdat= a=3D2UnIk5Z%2BzrXXIWf1%2BhSGpK46Vsa2Cq6O%2BZ4FdWzt6gk%3D&reserved=3D0" = target=3D"_blank">https://librosa.org</a>) and Surfboard (<a href=3D"https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?= url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnovoic%2Fsurfboard&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdm= orris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af89= 8c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273270942%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM= C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata= =3DIFFMLoiSLxw2VW0Gi3oJjLZwbiuWZVdtDdz%2BkPil93A%3D&reserved=3D0" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://github.com/novoic/surfboard</a>) are great packages for audio feature extraction if you want to do that.<u>= </u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">8. Python is fun! Try `import this` to see what I me= an.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">That said, Python can be kind of slow in some cases = (though you can overcome this easily if you know what you=E2=80=99re doing)= . If you really need the speed, Julia promises to be as efficient and as fa= st as C. To be honest though, in 3+ years of working in Python the whole =E2=80=9CPython is slow=E2=80=9D thing didn= =E2=80=99t really bother me. I would say it=E2=80=99s faster than R, at lea= st in my use cases.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, if you need proper statistics, R might be a be= tter choice. Statsmodels is the standard package for statistics in Python a= nd you can do a lot with it. Unfortunately it can be a bit challenging and = the docs are not so great. My current favourite for statistics in Python is Pingouin (<a href=3D"https://eur02.s= afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fpingouin-stats.org%2F&= amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0= %7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273270942%7CUnknown%= 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M= n0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3Drqb%2BncZrSKVDbPcMZkQHagEzcIuQOJqBcNvbcpSpsto%3D&a= mp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://pingouin-stats.org</a>), though it is missing some stuff (no mixed models yet).<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best of luck,<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--<u></u><u></u></span><= /p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski,= PhD<br> Assistant Professor<br> Department of Psychology<br> Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk, Poland<br> <a href=3D"https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F= %2Fmug.edu.pl%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.DK%7C72bc6da962ac459= d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637509516273= 280928%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6= Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DqxowLN0KJqQFcdBeHX8FtQybb7o8hbAU9= %2FSvxbR78zE%3D&reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">http://mug.edu.pl</a>= =C2=A0|=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= =3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkbas.gumed.edu.pl%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cdmorris%40HUM.KU.= DK%7C72bc6da962ac459d9d3908d8e38700c0%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C= 0%7C0%7C637509516273280928%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ= IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DSVdNV%2BYRm%2= F85DI6oxR0W02go842JwMpGvVAvMsXAqHk%3D&reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://kbas.gumed.edu.pl</a><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> <br> <u></u><u></u></p> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 2 Mar 2021, at 09:50, kishorekumar Bharshetty <= ;<a href=3D"mailto:kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">kumarbharsh= etty@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all,=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am Kishorekumar Bharshetty, Audiologist from India= . I am currently working as an Clinical Audiologist at Amplifon India Pvt L= td.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am curious to learn about Python software which is= a language coding software, thinking that it will help me to set a base to= learn more about Machine Learning technology.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I wanted to know, whether learning Python software f= or an audiologist is a good idea? If yes, how can I be benefitted with this= in future?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kindly, help me with this query.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, and Regards<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kishorekumar Bharshetty<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Audiologist<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Amplifon India Pvt Ltd, India<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">+91-9663148361<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx" target= =3D"_blank">kumarbharshetty@xxxxxxxx</a>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all"> <br> -- <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Timothy Beechey, PhD<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Postdoctoral Associate<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Department of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences<u></u= ><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:black;backgroun= d:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%">215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, M= inneapolis, MN 55455</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">University of Minnesota<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:tbeechey@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank= ">tbeechey@xxxxxxxx</a><u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all"> <br> -- <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Timothy Beechey, PhD<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Postdoctoral Associate<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Department of Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences<u></u= ><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:black;backgroun= d:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%">215C Shevlin Hall, 164 Pillsbury Dr SE, M= inneapolis, MN 55455</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">University of Minnesota<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:tbeechey@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank= ">tbeechey@xxxxxxxx</a><u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> 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