Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Responses to "listening to your tinnitus" From: Federico Simonetta <federico.simonetta@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:08:25 +0200Dear all, I am a computer scientist/engineer working on MIR. As such, I'm=20 definitely not an expert in this topic, but I suffer by bilateral=20 tinnitus from the age of my first memories. I'm following this discussion since the beginning because I've=20 experienced something similar to what Brian describes. Precisely, I've=20 found that "listening to my tinnitus" can reduce its perceived loudness=20 while doing autogenic training. In my case, I work in this way: * first, I achieve my usual autogenic state using the standard exercises * I start listening to my tinnitus, and this action usually makes it=20 louder, in the same way I concentrate on other parts of the body in the=20 "weight" exercise * I start trying to make it softer, exactly as I do to make my hands=20 warm: "imagining" it softer actually makes it so I have not noticed a long-term reduction, but at least I can go to sleep=20 without almost hearing it. Maybe such phenomenon can be explained with=20 the modified blood micro-circulation, as for the "weight" sensation?=20 Since autogenic training can have long-term effects, it can be that in=20 some cases it has beneficial effects for the tinnitus too. As I said, I'm not an expert and, from what I read around, mindfullness=20 and autogenic training are already used for tinnitus therapies. I just=20 wanted to describe what I do to compare it with Brian's method and see=20 if there are similarities. Greetings, f On 20/08/21 07:49, PIerre DIVENYI wrote: > Fatima, Brian, >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think you are talking about the same thing. Brian=E2=80= =99s proposal=20 > can=E2=80=99t be considered a varietal of mind-body training. It is sen= sory=20 > awareness of an individual acoustic object, if this description fits=20 > Brian=E2=80=99s tinnitus. Although, as he says, it=E2=80=99s not =E2=80= =9Ctonal,=E2=80=9D it has tonal=20 > components. My suggestion is to try to match the pitch of one or severa= l=20 > of the components and even write it down. If it is pulsating, identify=20 > its rhythm and, again, write it down. Since this is nothing else but a=20 > stimulus-less auditory object matching psychoacoustic task, it could=20 > also lead to =C2=A0identifying its properties and its night-by-night=20 > variability. And doing this experiment would not take away your=20 > observation that awareness of the auditory properties of the tinnitus=20 > makes it less annoying. >=20 > My two-penny thoughts inspired by 50 years in bed with psychoacoustics. > Pierre >=20 > Sent from my autocorrecting iPad >=20 >> On Aug 19, 2021, at 21:50, Fatima Husain <husainf@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> Hi Brian >> >> I will attempt to answer. What you are describing seems like the=20 >> "sounds and thoughts" meditation, which is one of the=20 >> mindfulness-based cognitive training (MBCT) exercises, where the=20 >> individual meditates on their body's sounds & external sounds,=20 >> including their tinnitus=C2=A0(if they have it). We conducted an MBCT=20 >> intervention for adults with bothersome tinnitus and found that a=20 >> great majority were helped by an 8-week MBCT course. When we were=20 >> designing the experiment, we were worried if this particular=C2=A0exer= cise=20 >> would exacerbate someone's tinnitus=C2=A0and we gave directions to the= =20 >> instructors accordingly. But, we found that no one complained about=20 >> listening to or being intensely aware of their=C2=A0tinnitus in this=20 >> context. There have been several published reports of MBCT being=20 >> useful and if they all did the standard MBCT, then it would include=20 >> this type of meditation. Other psychology-based treatments may also=20 >> include such meditation exercises. No published report, to my=20 >> knowledge, has weighed in on the relative merits of different aspects=20 >> of MBCT or similar plans. >> >> Hope this helps, >> Fatima >> >> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 11:57 PM Brian Gygi <bgygi@xxxxxxxx=20 >> <mailto:bgygi@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >> >> __ >> Hello, I received several responses to my post on "listening to >> your tinnitus" in which I described a method I had found that >> seemed to alleviate my tinnitus.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, all of the p= osts >> described methods in which an acoustic signal is present to the >> ear with frequencies that match (or mask) the tinnitus, which is >> different from what I was talking about. >> >> The method I was describing involved actually focusing on the >> tinnitus, not an auditory stimulus.=C2=A0 I can hear out some of t= he >> individual tones in my tinnitus, and I find when I do this the >> tinnitus seems to lessen in severity. >> >> So, does anyone know of any work that that been done in this area? >> >> Thanks, >> Brian Gygi >> >> >> >> --=20 >> Fatima T. Husain, Ph.D. >> Professor, Dept. of Speech and Hearing Science and >> The Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology >> Faculty Affiliate Neuroscience Program and Computational Science and=20 >> Engineering >> Auditory Cognitive Neuroscience Lab >> University of Illinois >> husainf@xxxxxxxx <mailto:husainf@xxxxxxxx> >> www.acnlab.com <http://www.acnlab.com> >>