Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] [External] Re: arXiv web of trust From: Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2023 17:27:47 -0400--------------2UrlhN5oszlZZSQ04xd55u6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum4.it.mcgill.ca id 35ALS9j9023202 You are changing the conditions.=C2=A0 You are misrepresenting what I sai= d.=C2=A0=20 You do not understand what I said.=C2=A0 You are assuming facts not in=20 evidence.=C2=A0 Typical of an "internet argument."=C2=A0 No point to this. Les On 6/10/2023 4:46 PM, Lesicko, Alexandria wrote: > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding,=20 > opening attachments or clicking on links. *** > > Using a reference as a standard in this case only makes sense if you=20 > assume adequate resources. If we do not have enough money to pay both=20 > Fred and John at market value, what do we do? There is a limited=20 > amount of scientific funding, a limited number of faculty jobs, etc.=20 > Historically, people from certain demographic backgrounds have largely=20 > been the recipients of this funding and have populated these=20 > positions. If people who look like Fred are repeatedly chosen to get=20 > grants and to fill faculty slots, while people who look like John are=20 > not, can we just throw our hands in the air and say =E2=80=9Cwell, Fred= is=20 > being treated fairly=E2=80=9D? No, Fred is benefitting from the privile= ges of=20 > his demographic background while John is not. So yes, I do understand=20 > the difference between two values and the case when one is a reference=20 > (I have, after all, been a trainee in this field for over 10 years!),=20 > but I question the validity of using a reference here at all. > > I didn=E2=80=99t make your point, you negated it. You stated that you a= nd=20 > =E2=80=9Cother white guys=E2=80=9D were not given some undeserved privi= lege and that=20 > nothing was handed to you, implying that you deserve the privilege you=20 > have and that therefore privilege can somehow be earned. Now you=20 > suggest you have no privilege at all. I have maintained throughout=20 > this conversation that privilege can reflect factors outside of our=20 > control, such as our race and gender, and is undeserved. Suggesting=20 > you have no privilege implies that people are, in fact, not treated=20 > differently based on these demographic factors. If your life would=20 > have looked any different by altering any one of these factors, for=20 > example if you were born a black man or a white woman, then you have=20 > privilege. > > You have decided that injustice does not exist in our field basely=20 > solely and entirely on your own lived experience. Why is your=20 > experience the null hypothesis? How is that scientific? Others have=20 > supported their arguments with references and citations, you have not=20 > contributed anything other than your own perspective, which is the=20 > perspective of, in your words, =E2=80=9Ca fairly successful old white g= uy.=E2=80=9D > > Allyship is not about =E2=80=9Ctaking sides=E2=80=9D, it is about liste= ning to,=20 > supporting, and advocating for people from different backgrounds than=20 > your own. There=E2=80=99s been a great show of that on this thread and = that is=20 > a positive product of this conversation. I don=E2=80=99t think acknowle= dging=20 > that is stoking polarization. > > *From: *Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> > *Date: *Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 2:51 PM > *To: *Lesicko, Alexandria <Alexandria.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx>,=20 > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > *Subject: *Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust > > It is most unfortunate that you do not understand the distinctions=20 > between a simple difference between two values and the case when one=20 > is a reference.=C2=A0 If Fred earns market value for his work and John = does=20 > not, it is not the case that Fred is privileged.=C2=A0 Fred and others=20 > should work to ensure that John is paid market value as well.=C2=A0 If = you=20 > still fail or refuse to grasp the difference, then I cannot help you. > > Indeed, the use of "privileged" implies it is undeserved.=C2=A0 Thank y= ou=20 > for making my point!=C2=A0 I do not have privilege.=C2=A0 Rather, I bel= ieve I=20 > have been treated fairly.=C2=A0 The sad truth is that others have not b= een=20 > treated fairly and are not being treated fairly.=C2=A0 I never suggeste= d=20 > that such societal inequities and injustices are irrelevant simply=20 > because some do not face them.=C2=A0 That's your invention.=C2=A0 I did= say,=20 > that, in our field, I do not think such injustices are substantive.=C2=A0= =20 > It is not for me to acceded to your insistence that I prove the null=20 > hypothesis.=C2=A0 It is, rather, incumbent upon you to demonstrate that= , in=20 > our field, such injustice exists in substantive fashion. > > This is not about allies or "sides."=C2=A0 Your thinking reflects the=20 > corruption wrought by polarization.=C2=A0 I do not deny the societal il= ls=20 > identified.=C2=A0 I simply have a different view of how they arose and=20 > persist.=C2=A0 That they should be addressed is undeniable, as I see it= .=C2=A0=20 > Still, this is the Auditory List.=C2=A0 I limited my comments regarding= the=20 > existence of injustices (or lack thereof), to our field. > > On 6/10/2023 12:50 PM, Lesicko, Alexandria wrote: > > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, > opening attachments or clicking on links. *** > > There is no difference. By analogy: =E2=80=9Cit is ok to say that 3= is 5 > less than 8 but we mustn=E2=80=99t suggest that 8 is 5 more than 3.= =E2=80=9D No > matter what phrasing of it makes you feel comfortable, you are > referring to the same gap of 5, the same inequity in access to > resources, support, etc. There is no such thing as /deserved/ > privilege. It would be very weird to say, =E2=80=9CI deserved to be= born > white=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CI deserved to be born a man.=E2=80=9D Pr= ivilege can stem from > circumstances outside of our control. Regardless, those of us who > were born with it still benefit from it. That does not mean, for > example, that I must hate myself to atone for it, nor does it mean > that everything I have accomplished in my life is a direct cause > of my whiteness and must be reduced to this factor. But it does > mean that I very likely had an easier time in my life and my > career than I would have had I been born otherwise. I think > recognizing that is the first step in having more supportive and > less harmful interactions with the people around me who come from > different backgrounds with different lived experiences. > > To those suggesting that these issues are irrelevant to them > because they have succeeded in the face of obstacles, you are > again missing the point. Your personal experience is not > universal, and one example of success does not negate the fact > that others suffer the consequences of bias and discrimination. If > you work in science, you are part of an international community > made up of people from diverse backgrounds, meaning these issues > are relevant to you and the manner in which you engage with other > scientists. Further, by saying that these issues are non-existent, > trivial, or irrelevant, you are sending a message to anyone in > your field who may experience bias or discrimination that they > cannot come to you for support and allyship, because you have > already minimized or devalued their experiences. Thank you to > Matt, Mario, David, Ken, and everyone else on this thread who have > demonstrated allyship - one benefit of having these conversations > out in the open is that members of the community know who they can > turn to in the face of such issues. > > *From: *AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception > <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> <mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on > behalf of Vani Rajendran <vani.g.rajendran@xxxxxxxx> > <mailto:vani.g.rajendran@xxxxxxxx> > *Date: *Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 4:37 AM > *To: *AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > <mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > *Subject: *Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust > > I'm sorry if I'm being thick but what exactly is the difference? > > If the cards are being stacked against rather than in favor... > ok... but who benefits from the stacking? Who decides the stacking? > > Vani > > On Fri, Jun 9, 2023, 22:11 Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> wrot= e: > > I agree with Ken's views, save for this statement: > > /The cards are stacked in favor of those with privilege... > > /No, the cards are stacked */against /*those unfairly denied > opportunity and dignity.=C2=A0 The difference is both non-trivi= al > and crucial. > > Les > > On 6/9/2023 4:12 PM, Ken Grant wrote: > > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution > responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. *** > > Thank you Alexandria for expressing what it means to have > systemic obstacles and barriers to success throughout our > society. Folks=C2=A0got upset when the Black Lives Matter > movement took off because they were wondering "don't White > Lives Matter as well". Anyone who felt this=C2=A0way > misunderstood the entire enterprise. Nobody ever claimed > that white lives don't=C2=A0matter, or matter more, or matt= er > less. A good friend suggested that, if the Black Lives > Matter movement had printed signs that read "Black Lives > Matter Too". While I understood his point and that I can > see how this might have helped white male americans feel > better, this too misses the point. Centuries of inequities > do not get wiped away in an instant. Declaring racism over > is a monstrous=C2=A0error. Some scientists rise to the top = of > their fields by working very very hard. But as the cartoon > displayed, not all children, adolescents, or teens have > the same opportunities. The cards are stacked in favor of > those with privilege,=C2=A0and your comment that recognizin= g > this fact might make us more willing and able to consider > these systemic obstacles. > > On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 12:15=E2=80=AFAM Bernstein,Leslie > <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > I disagree.=C2=A0 I think I understand the points and t= he > reality quite well. > > Les > > -------------------------------------------------------= ----------------- > > *From:*"Lesicko, Alexandria" > <Alexandria.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx> > *Date:* Thu, Jun 8, 2023, 5:06 PM > *To:* "Bernstein,Leslie" <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx>, > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust > > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution > responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. *= ** > > I think it's important to establish the DC-level, > sea-level, the "reference level."=C2=A0 The societal > inequities that exist are not because I and other > "white guys" (i.e., the "Richards" in the cartoon) > were given some */undeserved/*//privilege but, rather, > because some minorities and cultures (i.e., the > Paula's in the cartoon) have been unfairly denied > */their /*due.=C2=A0 I think it very much matters where= one > perceives the unfairness to be. > > *I think you are missing the main point of the > cartoons that have been shared here. They are meant to > illustrate the point that our gender, racial, etc. > identities and economic realities shape our > experiences and opportunities in science and in the > world. This benefits some people and works against > others. The =E2=80=9Cperceived unfairness=E2=80=9D isn=E2= =80=99t on one side > of the coin or the other, it is all a product of the > same system.* > > I find the self-loathing concept of "privilege" to be > misguided folly=C2=A0 I will not apologize for what I h= ave > accomplished and for what I have.=C2=A0 It was not hand= ed > to me.=C2=A0 For those who still don't understand, I'll= say > it again.=C2=A0 The social injustice lies in the fact t= hat > the less fortunate (often minority cultures and > ethnicities) have been denied the opportunity and > dignity they deserve as human beings.=C2=A0 That is whe= re > we must focus our efforts for change. > > *I think this is also a misunderstanding - I don=E2=80=99= t > think that the concept of privilege invokes > self-loathing. Nobody is asking you to apologize and > hate yourself for whatever privileges you may have. > Further, nobody is saying that you have not worked > hard for your accomplishments. My understanding of > acknowledging privilege is that it is about humility > rather than self-loathing. For example, understanding > that my path in life and in my career may have looked > different and involved more obstacles if I were a > person of color, queer, disabled, etc. You can still > be proud of your accomplishments and your hard work > while acknowledging this. I also don=E2=80=99t think > acknowledging privilege is the end goal in these > discussions or an exercise unto itself, but a > necessary step in the process of beginning to tackle > the social injustices that you mention above. If we > cannot first admit that these factors play a role in > our trajectories, then it is hard to get any further > in enacting change - we are blind to what we are > trying to tackle.* > > It is trivially true to say that, in any field, in any > vocation, in any hierarchy, there are biases that come > into play.=C2=A0 That's because they are all human > endeavors. Matters of degree count!=C2=A0 In our field = of > auditory science-- and this is after all the Auditory > List-- others here have asserted that discriminatory > factors */must /*be at play to a */substantial > degree/*. I think that is patently false and my > observations across decades support that belief. > > *You cannot say that because you have not experienced > or witnessed discrimination in this field that it does > not exist. All you can say is that you have not > experienced or witnessed it. Other people on this > thread are telling you that their experiences have > been different (and citing literature that points to > the existence of bias and discrimination at large). > Again, it is important to listen to and acknowledge > the experiences of other people if we want to address > social injustice. People from different demographic > backgrounds can have radically different experiences > of the same community. You can simultaneously take > pride in your field and your community and want to > make it better.* > > Some of you have acted as "scientists" drawing > conclusions on the basis of essentially no evidence > when you have implied that I, personally, must have a > myopic view because you assume that I'm just another > fairly successful old white guy. Shame on you.=C2=A0 Yo= u > know nothing of my history and that of my family.=C2=A0= You > commit the genetic fallacy, that of evaluating an idea > on the basis of */who /*generated the idea, rather > than on the merits of the idea, /per se/. In so doing, > you commit the very sin that you decry so vociferously > in self-righteous fashion! > > *It seems that most people are replying directly to > what you said, point-by-point, not assuming that you > must be myopic because you are, as you describe, a > =E2=80=9Cfairly successful old white guy=E2=80=9D. **=F0= =9F=98=8A * > > I suggest that you read this excellent work > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.penguinrandomho= use.com/books/696856/woke-racism-by-john-mcwhorter/__;!!Cn_UX_p3!mth3_BPl= c7TsaCwG6Fez_ufiHVy_INKv0r3PU3I8KlFF88Mx_Qloe66OaO-NjlpyLdKM4zoYEz0NpSlG0= tRioJBgeweVdH8f3vSxx7WGig$> > by the brilliant linguist, John McWhorter. > > This began as a discussion of open-access > dissemination of scientific results.=C2=A0 I hope, if t= his > thread continues at all, it will return to that topic, > a topic that is most appropriate for the Auditory List. > > *I don=E2=80=99t think that these topics are inappropri= ate and > are actually very important and beneficial to discuss.* > > Les > > *From: *AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception > <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Les Bernstein > <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> > *Date: *Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:10 AM > *To: *AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= A> > *Subject: *[External] Re: arXiv web of trust > > I think it's important to establish the DC-level, > sea-level, the "reference level."=C2=A0 The societal > inequities that exist are not because I and other > "white guys" (i.e., the "Richards" in the cartoon) > were given some */undeserved/*//privilege but, rather, > because some minorities and cultures (i.e., the > Paula's in the cartoon) have been unfairly denied > */their /*due. I think it very much matters where one > perceives the unfairness to be. > > I find the self-loathing concept of "privilege" to be > misguided folly=C2=A0 I will not apologize for what I h= ave > accomplished and for what I have.=C2=A0 It was not hand= ed > to me.=C2=A0 For those who still don't understand, I'll= say > it again.=C2=A0 The social injustice lies in the fact t= hat > the less fortunate (often minority cultures and > ethnicities) have been denied the opportunity and > dignity they deserve as human beings.=C2=A0 That is whe= re > we must focus our efforts for change. > > It is trivially true to say that, in any field, in any > vocation, in any hierarchy, there are biases that come > into play.=C2=A0 That's because they are all human > endeavors. Matters of degree count! In our field of > auditory science-- and this is after all the Auditory > List-- others here have asserted that discriminatory > factors */must /*be at play to a */substantial > degree/*. I think that is patently false and my > observations across decades support that belief. > > Some of you have acted as "scientists" drawing > conclusions on the basis of essentially no evidence > when you have implied that I, personally, must have a > myopic view because you assume that I'm just another > fairly successful old white guy.=C2=A0 Shame on you.=C2= =A0 You > know nothing of my history and that of my family.=C2=A0= You > commit the genetic fallacy, that of evaluating an idea > on the basis of */who /*generated the idea, rather > than on the merits of the idea, /per se/.=C2=A0 In so > doing, you commit the very sin that you decry so > vociferously in self-righteous fashion! > > I suggest that you read this excellent work > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.penguinrandomho= use.com/books/696856/woke-racism-by-john-mcwhorter/__;!!Cn_UX_p3!mth3_BPl= c7TsaCwG6Fez_ufiHVy_INKv0r3PU3I8KlFF88Mx_Qloe66OaO-NjlpyLdKM4zoYEz0NpSlG0= tRioJBgeweVdH8f3vSxx7WGig$>by > the brilliant linguist, John McWhorter. > > This began as a discussion of open-access > dissemination of scientific results.=C2=A0 I hope, if t= his > thread continues at all, it will return to that topic, > a topic that is most appropriate for the Auditory List. > > Les > > On 6/4/2023 9:24 PM, Svirsky, Mario wrote: > > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use > caution responding, opening attachments or > clicking on links. *** > > I have a small contribution to the very > interesting conversation between Matt Winn and Les > Bernstein. > > I recommend those of you who are also interested > in this conversation watch =E2=80=9CPicture a Scien= tist=E2=80=9D, > which is on Netflix in the U.S. until June 12. It > is a fascinating description of some of the > obstacles faced by women in general and black > women in particular, in academia. > > I agree with Les that, ideally, status as a > researcher should be earned by a person=E2=80=99s > contributions to their field. The problem is that > in the real world women get fewer resources and > less recognition than men given the same intellect > and productivity. Ditto for minorities. =E2=80=9CPi= cture a > Scientist=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t even get into th= e issues of > class, nationality, or able bodiedness, which are > also important. > > Or instead of watching Picture a Scientist (which, > after all, will take you 103 minutes), you could > invest just two minutes in reading the cartoon > below. About the concept of having things handed > to you on a plate (or =E2=80=9Cbeing born on third = base > and thinking you hit a triple=E2=80=9D, a quote att= ributed > to Barry Switzer, 1986). > > Mario A. Svirsky, Ph.D. > > Noel L. Cohen Professor of Hearing Science, > > Professor of Otolaryngology (School of Medicine) > and Neural Science > > Vice-Chairman for Research > > Department of Otolaryngology > > *Address:* > > Dept. of Otolaryngology *Phone *(direct)*:* > 212-263-7217 > > NYU=C2=A0Langone Medical Center *Fax:* 212-263-7604= or > 212-263-8257 > > 550 First Ave., NBV-5E5 > > New York, NY 10016 > > Pronouns: he, him, his > > ** > > *CONFIDENTIAL - NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE SENSITIVE > DOCUMENT* > > ** > > =E2=80=9CThis email message, including any attachme= nts, is > for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and > may contain information that is proprietary, > confidential, and exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, > disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you > have received this email in error please notify > the sender by return email and delete the original > message. Please note, the recipient should check > this email and any attachments for the presence of > viruses. The organization accepts no liability for > any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this > email.=E2=80=9D > > --=20 > > *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | *Professor Emeritus > > Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | > UConn School of Medicine > 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 > Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 > > --=20 > > *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | *Professor Emeritus > > Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn > School of Medicine > 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 > Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 > > --=20 > > *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. **| *Professor Emeritus > > Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of=20 > Medicine > 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 > Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 > --=20 *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. **| *Professor Emeritus Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of=20 Medicine 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 --------------2UrlhN5oszlZZSQ04xd55u6e Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------0GLi4BqsHKOygR8WOEpfTlod" --------------0GLi4BqsHKOygR8WOEpfTlod Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum4.it.mcgill.ca id 35ALS9j9023202 <html><head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"> </head> <body> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Helvetica, Ar= ial, sans-serif">You are changing the conditions. You are misrepresenting what I said. You do not understand what I said. You are assuming facts not in evidence. Typical= of an "internet argument." No point to this.<br> <br> Les<br> </font><br> <br> On 6/10/2023 4:46 PM, Lesicko, Alexandria wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:BL0PR04MB4961AD265F69D397BB87FF= 05A456A@xxxxxxxx"> =20 <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--> <style>@xxxxxxxx {font-family:Helvetica; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:Papyrus; panose-1:2 11 6 2 4 2 0 2 3 3;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; panose-1:2 0 5 3 0 0 0 2 0 4;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#002048"; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}@xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;}p.p1, li.p1, div.p1 {mso-style-name:p1; margin:0in; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue";}p.p2, li.p2, div.p2 {mso-style-name:p2; margin:0in; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue";}span.apple-converted-space {mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;}span.EmailStyle23 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <div style=3D"background-color:#D5EAFF; padding:.8em; "> <div style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:#ff0000; text-align: center; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***</div> </div> <div> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue"">Using a reference as a standard in this case only makes sense if you assume adequate resources. If we do not have enough money to pay both Fred and John at market value, what do we do? There is a limited amount of scientific funding, a limited number of faculty jobs, etc. Historically, people from certain demographic backgrounds have largely been the recipients of this funding and have populated these positions. If people who look like Fred are repeatedly chosen to get grants and to fill faculty slots, while people who look like John are not, can we just throw our hands in the air and say =E2=80=9Cwell, Fred= is being treated fairly=E2=80=9D? No, Fred is benefitting from= the privileges of his demographic background while John is not. So yes, I do understand the difference between two values and the case when one is a reference (I have, after all, been a trainee in this field for over 10 years!), but I question the validity of using a reference here at all. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue""><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue"">I didn=E2=80=99t make your point, you negated i= t. You stated that you and =E2=80=9Cother white guys=E2=80=9D were= not given some undeserved privilege and that nothing was handed to you, implying that you deserve the privilege you have and that therefore privilege can somehow be earned. Now you suggest you have no privilege at all. I have maintained throughout this conversation that privilege can reflect factors outside of our control, such as our race and gender, and is undeserved. Suggesting you have no privilege implies that people are, in fact, not treated differently based on these demographic factors. If your life would have looked any different by altering any one of these factors, for example if you were born a black man or a white woman, then you have privilege.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue""><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue"">You have decided that injustice does not exist in our field basely solely and entirely on your own lived experience. Why is your experience the null hypothesis? How is that scientific? Others have supported their arguments with references and citations, you have not contributed anything other than your own perspective, which is the perspective of, in your words, =E2=80=9Ca fair= ly successful old white guy.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue""><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Helveti= ca Neue"">Allyship is not about =E2=80=9Ctaking sides=E2=80= =9D, it is about listening to, supporting, and advocating for people from different backgrounds than your own. There=E2=80=99s b= een a great show of that on this thread and that is a positive product of this conversation. I don=E2=80=99t think acknowl= edging that is stoking polarization.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><spa= n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">L= es Bernstein <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mail= to:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx"><lbernstein@xxxxxxxx></a><br> <b>Date: </b>Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 2:51 PM<br> <b>To: </b>Lesicko, Alexandria <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:Alexand= ria.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx"><Alexandria.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx= penn.edu></a>, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:AUDI= TORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:AUDITOR= Y@xxxxxxxx"><AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx></a><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica">= It is most unfortunate that you do not understand the distinctions between a simple difference between two values and the case when one is a reference. If Fre= d earns market value for his work and John does not, it is not the case that Fred is privileged. Fred and othe= rs should work to ensure that John is paid market value as well. If you still fail or refuse to grasp the difference, then I cannot help you.<br> <br> Indeed, the use of "privileged" implies it is undeserved. Thank you for making my point! I = do not have privilege. Rather, I believe I have been treat= ed fairly. The sad truth is that others have not been treated fairly and are not being treated fairly. I never suggested that such societal inequities and injustices are irrelevant simply because some do not face them. That's your invention. I did say, = that, in our field, I do not think such injustices are substantive. It is not for me to acceded to your insistence that I prove the null hypothesis. It is, rather, incumbent upon you to demonstrate that, in our field, such injustice exists in substantive fashion.<br> <br> This is not about allies or "sides." Your= thinking reflects the corruption wrought by polarization. I = do not deny the societal ills identified. I simply hav= e a different view of how they arose and persist. That = they should be addressed is undeniable, as I see it. Sti= ll, this is the Auditory List. I limited my comments regarding the existence of injustices (or lack thereof), to our field.<br> </span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> On 6/10/2023 12:50 PM, Lesicko, Alexandria wrote:<o:p></o= :p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;backgroun= d:#D5EAFF" align=3D"center"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:red">*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"p1">There is no difference. By analogy: =E2=80=9C= it is ok to say that 3 is 5 less than 8 but we mustn=E2=80=99t = suggest that 8 is 5 more than 3.=E2=80=9D No matter what phrasing= of it makes you feel comfortable, you are referring to the same gap of 5, the same inequity in access to resources, support, etc. There is no such thing as <i>deserved</i> privilege. It would be very weird to say, =E2=80=9CI dese= rved to be born white=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CI deserved to be born = a man.=E2=80=9D Privilege can stem from circumstances outside of our control. Regardless, those of us who were born with it still benefit from it. That does not mean, for example, that I must hate myself to atone for it, nor does it mean that everything I have accomplished in my life is a direct cause of my whiteness and must be reduced to this factor. But it does mean that I very likely had an easier time in my life and my career than I would have had I been born otherwise. I think recognizing that is the first step in having more supportive and less harmful interactions with the people around me who come from different backgrounds with different lived experiences.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> <= /span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"p2"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"p1">To those suggesting that these issues are irrelevant to them because they have succeeded in the face of obstacles, you are again missing the point. Your personal experience is not universal, and one example of success does not negate the fact that others suffer the consequences of bias and discrimination. If you work in science, you are part of an international community made up of people from diverse backgrounds, meaning these issues are relevant to you and the manner in which you engage with other scientists. Further, by saying that these issues are non-existent, trivial, or irrelevant, you are sending a message to anyone in your field who may experience bias or discrimination that they cannot come to you for support and allyship, because you have already minimized or devalued their experiences. Thank you to Matt, Mario, David, Ken, and everyone else on this thread who have demonstrated allyship - one benefit of having these conversations out in the open is that members of the community know who they can turn to in the face of such issues.<span class=3D"apple-converted-sp= ace"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nb= sp;</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nb= sp;</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>= <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:blac= k">AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-no= t-send=3D"true"><AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx></a> on behalf of Vani Rajendran <a href=3D"mailto:vani.g.rajendran@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-= not-send=3D"true"><vani.g.rajendran@xxxxxxxx></a><br> <b>Date: </b>Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 4:37 AM<br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= " moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= .MCGILL.CA</a> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-no= t-send=3D"true"><AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx></a><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= I'm sorry if I'm being thick but what exactly is the difference?</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= If the cards are being stacked against rather than in favor... ok... but who benefits from the stacking? Who decides the stacking?</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= Vani</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">= </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p= t">On Fri, Jun 9, 2023, 22:11 Les Bernstein <<a href= =3D"mailto:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true= " class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">lbernstein@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5= .0pt"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1= 1.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">I agree with Ken's views, save for this statement:<br> <br> <i>The cards are stacked in favor of those with privilege...<br> <br> </i>No, the cards are stacked <b><i>against </i></b>those unfairly denied opportunity and dignity. The difference is both non-trivial and crucial.<br> <br> Les<br> </span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> On 6/9/2023 4:12 PM, Ken Grant wrote:</span><= o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom= :5.0pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:cent= er;background:#D5EAFF" align=3D"center"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:red">**= * Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***</span><o:p></o:p></p= > </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-= size:12.0pt">Thank you Alexandria for expressing what it means to have systemic obstacles and barriers to success throughout our society. Folks got upset when the Black Lives Matter movement took off because they were wondering "don't White Lives Matter as well". Anyon= e who felt this way misunderstood th= e entire enterprise. Nobody ever claimed that white lives don't matter, or matter more, or matter less. A good friend suggested that, if the Black Lives Matter movement had printed signs that read "Black Lives Matte= r Too". While I understood his point= and that I can see how this might have helped white male americans feel better, this too misses the point. Centuries of inequities do not get wiped away in an instant. Declaring racism over is a monstrous error. = Some scientists rise to the top of their fields by working very very hard. But as the cartoon displayed, not all children, adolescents, or teens have the same opportunities. The cards are stacked in favor of those with privilege, and your comment that recognizing this fact might make us more willing and able to consider these systemic obstacles.</span><o:p></= o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size= :11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 12:15=E2=80=AFAM Bernstein,L= eslie <<a href=3D"mailto:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx= du" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-free= text">lbernstein@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:= solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5= .0pt"> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "font-size:11.0pt">I disagree. I think I underst= and the points and the reality quite well. </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "font-size:11.0pt">Les </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-= align:center" align=3D"center"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> <hr width=3D"60%" size=3D"0" align=3D= "center"> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-= bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> "Lesicko, Alexandria" <= ;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexandria.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_= blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">Alexandri= a.Lesicko@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Date:</b> Thu, Jun 8, 2023, 5:06 PM<br> <b>To:</b> "Bernstein,Leslie&q= uot; <<a href=3D"mailto:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-= not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">lbernstein@xxxxxxxx</a>= >, <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= GILL.CA" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link= -freetext">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [External] Re: arXiv web of trust</span><o:p></o:p= ></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"tex= t-align:center;background:#D5EAFF" align=3D"center"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;c= olor:red">*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***</span><o= :p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p>I think it's important to establish the DC-level, sea-level, the "reference level." The societal inequities that exist are not because I and other "white guys" (i.e., the "Ric= hards" in the cartoon) were given some <b><i>undeserved</i></b><i> </i= >privilege but, rather, because some minorities and cultures (i.e., the Paula's in the cartoon) have been unfairly denied <b><i>their </i></b>due. = I think it very much matters where one perceives the unfairness to be.<o:p></o:p></p= > <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><b>I think you are missing the main point of the cartoons that have been shared here. They are meant to illustrate the point that our gender, racial, etc. identities and economic realities shape our experiences and opportunities in science and in the world. This benefits some people and works against others. The =E2=80=9Cperceived unfairness= =E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t on one side of the coin or the other, it is all a product of the same system.</= b><o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>I find the self-loathing concept of "privilege"= ; to be misguided folly I will no= t apologize for what I have accomplished and for what I have. It was not handed t= o me. For those who still d= on't understand, I'll say it again. The social injusti= ce lies in the fact that the less fortunate (often minority cultures and ethnicities) have been denied the opportunity and dignity they deserve as human beings. That is whe= re we must focus our efforts for change.<o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><b>I think this is also a misunderstanding - I don=E2=80= =99t think that the concept of privilege invokes self-loathing. Nobody is asking you to apologize and hate yourself for whatever privileges you may have. Further, nobody is saying that you have not worked hard for your accomplishments. My understanding of acknowledging privilege is that it is about humility rather than self-loathing. For example, understanding that my path in life and in my career may have looked different and involved more obstacles if I were a person of color, queer, disabled, etc. You can still be proud of your accomplishments and your hard work while acknowledging this. I also don=E2=80=99t think acknowled= ging privilege is the end goal in these discussions or an exercise unto itself, but a necessary step in the process of beginning to tackle the social injustices that you mention above. If we cannot first admit that these factors play a role in our trajectories, then it is hard to get any further in enacting change - we are blind to what we are trying to tackle.</b><o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>It is trivially true to say that, in any field, in any vocation, in any hierarchy, there are biases that come into play. That's because they are all human endeavors.&n= bsp; Matters of degree count! = In our field of auditory science-- and this is after all the Auditory List-- others here have asserted that discriminatory factors <b><i>mu= st </i></b>be at play to a <b><i= >substantial degree</i></b>. I think that is patently false and my observations across decades support that belief.<o:p></o:p>= </p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><b>You cannot say that because you have not experienced or witnessed discrimination in this field that it does not exist. All you can say is that you have not experienced or witnessed it. Other people on this thread are telling you that their experiences have been different (and citing literature that points to the existence of bias and discrimination at large). Again, it is important to listen to and acknowledge the experiences of other people if we want to address social injustice. People from different demographic backgrounds can have radically different experiences of the same community. You can simultaneously take pride in your field and your community and want to make it better.</b><o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>Some of you have acted as "scientists" drawing conclusions on the basis of essentially no evidence when you have implied that I, personally, must have a myopic view because you assume that I'm just another fairly successful old white guy. Shame on you. You know nothing of my history and that of my family. You commit = the genetic fallacy, that of evaluating an idea on the basis of <b><i>who </i></b>generated the idea, rather than on the merits of the idea, <i>per se</= i>. In so doing, you commit the very sin that you decry so vociferously in self-righteous fashion!<o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><b>It seems that most people are replying directly to what you said, point-by-point, not assuming that you must be myopic because you are, as you describe, a =E2=80=9Cfairly successful old white guy=E2=80= =9D. </b><b><span style=3D"font-fami= ly:"Apple Color Emoji"">=F0=9F=98= =8A</span> </b><o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>I suggest that you read <a hre= f=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/= 696856/woke-racism-by-john-mcwhorter/__;!!Cn_UX_p3!mth3_BPlc7TsaCwG6Fez_u= fiHVy_INKv0r3PU3I8KlFF88Mx_Qloe66OaO-NjlpyLdKM4zoYEz0NpSlG0tRioJBgeweVdH8= f3vSxx7WGig$" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"> this excellent work</a> by the brilliant linguist, John McWhorter.<o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>This began as a discussion of open-access dissemination of scientific results. I hop= e, if this thread continues at all, it will return to that topic, a topic that is most appropriate for the Auditory List.<o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><b>I don=E2=80=99t think that = these topics are inappropriate and are actually very important and beneficial to discuss.</b= ><o:p></o:p></p> <p> <o:p></o:p></p> <p>Les<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m= so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m= so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-= top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=3D"f= ont-size:12.0pt;color:black">AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <<a href=3D"m= ailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true= " class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>> on behalf of Les Bernstein <<a href=3D"mailto:lbern= stein@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-t= xt-link-freetext">lbernstein@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Date: </b>Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:10 AM<br= > <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailt= o:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" cl= ass=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:AUDIT= ORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"= moz-txt-link-freetext">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>><br> <b>Subject: </b>[External] Re: arXiv web of trust</spa= n><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">I think it's important to establish the DC-level, sea-level, the "refere= nce level." The soci= etal inequities that exist are not because I and other "white guys" (i.e= ., the "Richards" in the= cartoon) were given some <b><i>undeserved</i></b><i> </i>privilege but, rather, because some minorities and cultures (i.e., the Paula's in the cartoon) have been unfairly denied <b><i>their </i></b>due.&nb= sp; I think it very much matters where one perceives the unfairness to be.<br> <br> I find the self-loathing concept of "privilege&= quot; to be misguided folly I = will not apologize for what I have accomplished and for what I have. It was n= ot handed to me. For tho= se who still don't understand, I'll say it again. The social injustice lies in the fact that the less fortunate (often minority cultures and ethnicities) have been denied the opportunity and dignity they deserve as human beings. That is where we must focus our efforts for change.<br> <br> It is trivially true to say that, in any field, in any vocation, in any hierarchy, there are biases that come into play. That's because = they are all human endeavors.&nb= sp; Matters of degree count!&nb= sp; In our field of auditory science-- and this is after all the Auditory List-- others here have asserted that discriminatory factors <b><= i>must </i></b>be at play to a <b><i>substantial degree</i= ></b>. I think that is patently false and my observations across decades support that belief.<br> <br> Some of you have acted as "scientists" draw= ing conclusions on the basis of essentially no evidence when you have implied that I, personally, must have a myopic view because you assume that I'm just another fairly successful old white guy. Shame = on you. You know nothing= of my history and that of my family. You commit th= e genetic fallacy, that of evaluating an idea on the basis of <b><i>who </i></b>generated the idea, rather than on the merits of the idea, <i>= per se</i>. In so doing= , you commit the very sin that you decry so vociferously in self-righteous fashion!<br> <br> I suggest that you read </s= pan><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3= /__https:/www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/696856/woke-racism-by-john-mcw= horter/__;!!Cn_UX_p3!mth3_BPlc7TsaCwG6Fez_ufiHVy_INKv0r3PU3I8KlFF88Mx_Qlo= e66OaO-NjlpyLdKM4zoYEz0NpSlG0tRioJBgeweVdH8f3vSxx7WGig$" target=3D"_blank= " moz-do-not-send=3D"true"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica">this exc= ellent work</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:= Helvetica"> by the brilliant linguist, John McWhorter.<b= r> <br> This began as a discussion of open-access dissemination of scientific results. I hope, if this thread continues at all, it will return to that topic, a topic that is most appropriate for the Auditory List.<br> <br> Les<br> </span><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11.0pt"><br> On 6/4/2023 9:24 PM, Svirsky, Mario wrote:</span= ><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5= .0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center;bac= kground:#D5EAFF" align=3D"center"> <span style=3D"font-size:12= .0pt;color:red">*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***</s= pan><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">I have a small contribution to the very interesting conversation between Matt Winn and Les Bernstein.</span><o:p= ></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">I recommend those of you who are also interested in this conversation watch =E2=80=9CPicture a Scientist=E2=80=9D, which= is on Netflix in the U.S. until June 12. It is a fascinating description of some of the obstacles faced by women in general and black women in particular, in academia.</span><o:p></o:= p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">I agree with Les that, ideally, status as a researcher should be earned by a person=E2=80=99= s contributions to their field. The problem is that in the real world women get fewer resources and less recognition than men given the same intellect and productivity. Ditto for minorities. =E2=80=9C= Picture a Scientist=E2=80=9D does= n=E2=80=99t even get into the issues of class, nationality, or able bodiedness, which are also important.</span><o:p></o= :p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">Or instead of watching Picture a Scientist (which, after all, will take you 103 minutes), you could invest just two minutes in reading the cartoon below. About the concept of having things handed to you on a plate (or =E2=80=9Cbein= g born on third base and thinking you hit a triple=E2=80=9D, a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, 1986).</span><o:= p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"><img style=3D"width:7.3125in;height:10.177in" id=3D"m_-80645= 64293141944595m_7215464527543903297m_-8185742895131692532m_19025847513475= 709m_115388476549226764_x005f_x0000_i1030" src=3D"cid:part1.pR5PAGld.GrQz= X0SR@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"702" height=3D"977" bord= er=3D"0"></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"><img style=3D"width:7.3125in;height:10.2395in" id=3D"m_-8064= 564293141944595m_7215464527543903297m_-8185742895131692532m_1902584751347= 5709m_115388476549226764Picture_x0020_4" src=3D"cid:part2.M9kPbfmp.uDkjDP= 8J@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"702" height=3D"983" border= =3D"0"><img style=3D"width:7.3125in;height:10.2291in" id=3D"m_-8064564293= 141944595m_7215464527543903297m_-8185742895131692532m_19025847513475709m_= 115388476549226764Picture_x0020_5" src=3D"cid:part3.uaJ2nW7a.J1f3KZod@xxxxxxxx= c.edu" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"702" height=3D"982" border=3D"0"= ></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"><img style=3D"width:7.3125in;height:10.5625in" id=3D"m_-8064= 564293141944595m_7215464527543903297m_-8185742895131692532m_1902584751347= 5709m_115388476549226764Picture_x0020_3" src=3D"cid:part4.7HePe4UB.5IdKhy= vV@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"702" height=3D"1014" borde= r=3D"0"></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:12.0pt;font-family:"Papyrus",sans-serif;color:black;backgr= ound:white" lang=3D"IT">Mario A. Svirsky, Ph.D.</span><o:p= ></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Papyrus",sans-serif;color:black">Noel = L. Cohen Professor of Hearing Science,</span><o= :p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Papyrus",sans-serif;color:black">Profe= ssor of Otolaryngology (School of Medicine) and Neural Science</span><o:p= ></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Papyrus",sans-serif;color:black">Vice-= Chairman for Research</span><o:p><= /o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Papyrus",sans-serif;c= olor:black">Department of Otolaryngology</span><= o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style=3D"fon= t-size:11.0pt;color:black"><img style=3D"width:3.9375in;height:1.2187in" = id=3D"m_-8064564293141944595m_7215464527543903297m_-8185742895131692532m_= 19025847513475709m_115388476549226764Picture_x0020_2" src=3D"cid:part5.n9= sp5wu0.U2V0Y0gK@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"378" height=3D= "117" border=3D"0"></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b>= <span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Addr= ess:</span></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dept. o= f Otolaryngology  = ; = <b>Phone </b>(direct)<b>:<= /b> 212-263-7217</span><o:p><= /o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">NYU&nbs= p;Langone Medical Center  = ; <= b>Fax:</b> &nb= sp; 212-263-7604 or 212-263-8257</span><o:p><= /o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">550 Fir= st Ave., NBV-5E5 = &= nbsp; &n= bsp; &nb= sp; &nbs= p; </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">New Yor= k, NY 10016</span><o:p></o:p= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> = </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Pronoun= s: he, him, his</span><o:p><= /o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b>= <span style=3D"color:black"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b>= <span style=3D"color:black">CONFIDENTIAL - NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE SENSITIVE DOCUMENT</span></b><o:p= ></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b>= <span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">&nb= sp;</span></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><sp= an style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">=E2=80= =9CThis email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.=E2=80=9D</span><o:= p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m= so-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.= 0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D= "mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl= e=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style=3D= "font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | </span></b><span style=3D= "font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Professor Emeritus</span><o:p></o= :p></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNorm= al" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span st= yle=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology= ) | UConn School of Medicine </span><span styl= e=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> </span><span styl= e=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401</spa= n><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> </span><span styl= e=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495<br= > <br> <img style=3D"w= idth:1.302in;height:.5in" id=3D"m_-8064564293141944595m_72154645275439032= 97m_-8185742895131692532m_19025847513475709m_115388476549226764Picture_x0= 020_1" src=3D"cid:part6.A7LFyAfW.NZiMKcEP@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"tr= ue" width=3D"125" height=3D"48" border=3D"0"></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0p= t"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1= 1.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font= -size:11.0pt">Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p= t">Professor Emeritus</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "font-size:11.0pt">Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of Medicine <br> 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401<br> Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495<br> <br> <img style=3D"width:1.302in;heigh= t:.5in" id=3D"_x0000_i1026" src=3D"cid:part7.mRHYu2mB.0aK0nP8r@xxxxxxxx" = moz-do-not-send=3D"true" width=3D"125" height=3D"48" border=3D"0"></span>= <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span sty= le=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">-- <o= :p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quo= t;Arial",sans-serif">Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. </span></b><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial&= quot;,sans-serif">| </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial&quo= t;,sans-serif">Professor Emeritus</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of Medicine </span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> </span><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial&q= uot;,sans-serif">263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401<= /span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br> </span><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial&q= uot;,sans-serif">Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495<br> <br> <img style=3D"width:1.302in;height:.5in" id=3D= "_x0000_i1025" src=3D"cid:part1.nRTLLd7P.WAkwxcV2@xxxxxxxx" class=3D"" wi= dth=3D"125" height=3D"48" border=3D"0"></span><span style=3D"font-size:11= .0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br> =20 <title></title> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#002048"">Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. </span>= </b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans= -serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">| </span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-fami= ly:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">Professor Emeritus</span><= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman""><o:p>= </o:p></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"= ;,sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><br> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p= t;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><span style=3D"font-size:10.= 0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""> Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of Medicine </span><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401</span><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495<br> <br> <img moz-do-not-send=3D"false" src=3D"cid:part2.lTjsj= zjV.1WVEoMfS@xxxxxxxx" alt=3D"" width=3D"125" height=3D"48"><br> </span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --------------0GLi4BqsHKOygR8WOEpfTlod Content-Type: image/png; name="image001.png" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.png" Content-ID: <part1.nRTLLd7P.WAkwxcV2@xxxxxxxx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAH0AAAAwCAMAAAALmIWlAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJ bWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAADNQTFRFKzVYHCZM4eLn8PHzpKi30dTbaG+IlZqrs7fDWWB8O0Nkd32U wsXPSlJwhoufDRhA////A68jmAAAABF0Uk5T/////////////////////wAlrZliAAACYklEQVR4 2uzY22KDIAwAUC7e6gjw/187gUC4OetaupflaTXKWSuBKNMuJptC+QMCP20auPHBQCubBWU46K24 uB7NfZ58ZqaMP8D8AEBHtT/goXnB8WPwBf8r1WYUXWxUOZobHcJXIMcfONclmE4s0lrRzYBIOjvT jX5WV6YbP2ZQJ6TWjfiAbuYzHW7p+xpuolQrP83sjQ5nupnu6LqaJ92MbnSznulcfkBHpNXNY6y+ c0JKnWX1eFeflQt5qcNESKnrQMrf6LSAXeiWkEoXdOU4nZBKxzPnoTohtW5ZZyK8W09Io6tYjyP1 iDS6XbAeh815S0irS6zHUfXuB0Ok1S3W41AdEWh1/Nb7UD1bWytd0LY4ThdnerYbBJ1taT5XBmy4 J8mNnWagp5fbba6HeiTdneK6vNgoFj0EhyO4eSZT6AlpdNXoNzqYi94GbIU0eqhHp3d5drRf4heZ Uo9Iq8vYptup6VB37H6m/W6m0hFpdaxH3/yK9cHpVq5Zy59n2GMV/QxPGdV9NElPE9njyOozsfWW Kq6j7bLuw97KPBnM/mX86//6n+tH/yLKP7AUXcyd80Lx53WnspB47ty5qKND1gLockfIFzHR7srp Q7X0+6GgHPNFXedPyaN1CPFli71z+ZBeTxbcI2RXxwOQj/lW/Ui610Z6gA4a32WRrssXYbO76V/Z y6FLnZVj/qCnqGcdZE1DeFKcntWrMV/RZXCh7B/fpF/+8tQQx6J74y9/Oeuyrm75+Jyf8oKWH9CL 1SYNJtJ91HTOAD2fdjPN9UcsumwmDNYXqvPtOLa9pH8LMACnoV0siZAyOAAAAABJRU5ErkJgggAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --------------0GLi4BqsHKOygR8WOEpfTlod Content-Type: image/png; name="image001.png" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.png" Content-ID: <part2.lTjsjzjV.1WVEoMfS@xxxxxxxx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAH0AAAAwCAMAAAALmIWlAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJ bWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAADNQTFRFKzVYHCZM4eLn8PHzpKi30dTbaG+IlZqrs7fDWWB8O0Nkd32U wsXPSlJwhoufDRhA////A68jmAAAABF0Uk5T/////////////////////wAlrZliAAACYklEQVR4 2uzY22KDIAwAUC7e6gjw/187gUC4OetaupflaTXKWSuBKNMuJptC+QMCP20auPHBQCubBWU46K24 uB7NfZ58ZqaMP8D8AEBHtT/goXnB8WPwBf8r1WYUXWxUOZobHcJXIMcfONclmE4s0lrRzYBIOjvT jX5WV6YbP2ZQJ6TWjfiAbuYzHW7p+xpuolQrP83sjQ5nupnu6LqaJ92MbnSznulcfkBHpNXNY6y+ c0JKnWX1eFeflQt5qcNESKnrQMrf6LSAXeiWkEoXdOU4nZBKxzPnoTohtW5ZZyK8W09Io6tYjyP1 iDS6XbAeh815S0irS6zHUfXuB0Ok1S3W41AdEWh1/Nb7UD1bWytd0LY4ThdnerYbBJ1taT5XBmy4 J8mNnWagp5fbba6HeiTdneK6vNgoFj0EhyO4eSZT6AlpdNXoNzqYi94GbIU0eqhHp3d5drRf4heZ Uo9Iq8vYptup6VB37H6m/W6m0hFpdaxH3/yK9cHpVq5Zy59n2GMV/QxPGdV9NElPE9njyOozsfWW Kq6j7bLuw97KPBnM/mX86//6n+tH/yLKP7AUXcyd80Lx53WnspB47ty5qKND1gLockfIFzHR7srp Q7X0+6GgHPNFXedPyaN1CPFli71z+ZBeTxbcI2RXxwOQj/lW/Ui610Z6gA4a32WRrssXYbO76V/Z y6FLnZVj/qCnqGcdZE1DeFKcntWrMV/RZXCh7B/fpF/+8tQQx6J74y9/Oeuyrm75+Jyf8oKWH9CL 1SYNJtJ91HTOAD2fdjPN9UcsumwmDNYXqvPtOLa9pH8LMACnoV0siZAyOAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --------------0GLi4BqsHKOygR8WOEpfTlod-- --------------2UrlhN5oszlZZSQ04xd55u6e--