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Re: Uncertainty principle debate
This paper might be relevent to the uncertainty debate:
James J. Hant and Abeer Alwan, "A Psychoacoustic-Masking Model to Predict
the Perception of Speech-Like Stimuli in Noise," Speech Communication,
Vol. 40, May 2003, pp. 291-313.
The paper has data showing noise masked thresholds as a function
of duration and introduces a model which can predict these thresholds.
Stimuli include tones, glides, noise bursts, and formant transitions.
You can download the paper from our website:
http:///www.icls.ucla.edu/~spapl (and then click on the Publications
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Alain de Cheveigne' wrote:
> Nordmark (1968, 1970) made the same point. See also Moore (1973).
> [Moore BCJ (1973) Frequency difference limens for short-duration
> tones. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 54:610-619; Nordmark JO (1968) Mechanisms
> of frequency discrimination. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 44:1533-1540;
> Nordmark JO (1970) Time and frequency analysis. In Tobias JV (ed
> Foundations of modern auditory theory. New York: Academic Press,
> >Hello List,
> >The current controversy about the application of the uncertainty
> >principl;e is to me at least interesting and somewhat perplexing in that
> >it is still, seems to me, misunderstood.
> >There are two two methods of defining frequency. One of these is the
> >inverse of the time difference between two points of equal phase in a
> >recurring signal. This definition is NOT limited by the uncertainty
> >principle.[Kneser, H.O. Bermerkungen ueber Definition and Messung der
> >Frequenz. Arch. Elekt. Uebertr. 1948 2 167-169}
> >Bekesy in many of his works (based on experimental data) has stated :
> >Frequency is already determined in 2 cycles of a sinusoidal signal. At a
> >frequency of 500 Hz the estimate that I have is that the aproximate DL =
> >1 Hz. Now two cycles of 500 Hz is 4 mS. The product of delta t and
> >delta f is 0.004. Very obviously less than 1/2 which (the 1/2) as I
> >recall was first derived by Gabor [ Gabor, D. Theory of communication.
> >J. Instn. Elect. Engrs. 1946 93(3) 429-457] See also [Licklider J.C.R.
> >"Basic correlates of the auditory sto,i;is" in S.S. Stevens (ed)
> >Handbook of experimental psychology pp 985-1013 1951 Wiley, New York]
> >Licklider (one of my teachers) compares this to Heisenberg's uncertainty
> >Based on this type of data the determination of frequency by at least
> >humans and perhaps other vertebrates must be based on time differences.
> >Fred Herzfeld, MIT'54
> >78 Glynn Marsh Drive #59
> >Brunswick, Ga. 31525-0504
> >Tel: (912) 262-1276
> >Fax: (912) 262-1276 by request
> Alain de Cheveigne'
> Ircam - CNRS,
> 1 place Igor Stravinsky, 75004, Paris, FRANCE.
> email: Alain.de.Cheveigne@ircam.fr, phone: +33 1 44 78 48 46