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Re: place pitch and temporal pitch

Dear Christian,

At 14:02 19.03.2004 +0100, you wrote:
>> Understanding your reasoning quite well, I can nonetheless not confirm
>> that. Your filters excluded the spectral code. Consequently, the admittedly
>> hidden two-stage autocorrelation of the raw sound waveform was also
>> excluded. This caused the discrepancy between your correct conclusion that
>> there is no autocorrelation and Peter Cariani's claim that autocorrelation
>> plays an important role. Do not be disappointed. You discovered what
>> remains without spectrally based autocorrelation.
>Oh, Eckard, I would not be disappointed if we two would continue to
>disagree. Such things happen.

Respecting the limitations to this list, I  do nonetheless not accept
evading clarification just with regard to your reputation in case of
lacking arguments. Therefore I suggest we clarify the matter in all details
privately and inform the list about the outcome. Referees who hide the
truth would kill any progress.

>As to this attempt to "save" AC via a two-stage model including both
>spectral and temporal processing:

You are getting me wrong, hopefully not deliberately.
The two-stage model was perhaps invented several times. Bogert, Healy, and
Tukey published it in 1963. The pertaining mathematics is definitely
correct. BTW, the real-valued cepstrum is sufficient.
My approach was quite different. First I dealt for decades with
inappropriateness of the spectrogram and developed the natural spectrogram.
Then I had to understand radar systems using the IFFT method. I realized
that a combination of these components provides a model of hearing that
fits very well to all data I and unexplained phenomena I am aware of so
far. It is also evolutionary plausible.
While I never intended to save AC, I speculate that application of AC on
the Cochleagram instead of the original signal contributed to the limited
success of Malcolm Slaney's correlogram.

>No, it does not work.

I do not accept such an unproven wrong guess.

Nevertheless all my best wishes,