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Re: Cochlea Amplifier models : a new list
Thank you Reinhart. On behalf of the list.
You have finally walked a mind experiment which has led you to your
version of the Compression amplifier.
Before your one man show is finished, I would like to ask one more thing
Please - did I prompt you there, or have you been publishing your way
there ... can you please point us all to one of your papers which is
most relevant ?
I would dearly like to read it.
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On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 03:06:56PM +0000, reinifrosch@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Hello Matt and List,
> This one-man show is going to end soon now, I hope.
> I insert some answers below.
> ----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
> Von: flatmax@xxxxxxxx
> Datum: 19.10.2007 03:00
> An: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Kopie: "reinifrosch@xxxxxxxxxx"<reinifrosch@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Betreff: Re: Cochlea Amplifier models : a new list
> >Robles  Figure 14 - Phase increases away from stapes
> >... agreed.
> Phase decreases, so the wave travels from base
> towards apex.
> >I have no problem with Bekesey's PASSIVE
> >travelling wave... it is a good thing he won a Nobel peace
> >prize for it ... in my opinion. To us he is like Newton.
> >Would you agree ? A g-dfather of Auditory physics.
> Yes, I think both Sir Isaac and von Békésy were creative,
> energetic and courageous. Nevertheless, I'd like to ask
> the List a question (which is only weakly related to the
> present cochlear-amplifier discussion): On page 443
> of his book "Experiments in Hearing" von Békésy
> mentions "the gelatinous mass of the cochlear duct".
> Was that the TM?
> >Ren  Figure 2 - BM motion and emissions have roughly
> >the same phase and same delay. The activity in the
> >cochlea - with respect to DPOAEs and other OAEs - are
> >as fast (or slightly faster depending on tonotopic
> >location) as the travelling wave. Indeed it is now emerging
> >that apical emissions are quite likely FASTER !
> I just re-read T. Ren, W. X. He, and A. L. Nuttall (2006),
> "Backward propagation of otoacoustic emissions in the
> cochlea", in "Auditory Mechanisms", A.L. Nuttall et al., eds.,
> World Scientific, New Jersey, etc.: 79-85.
> They conclude:"[...] This result supports the cochlear-fluid-
> compression-wave model and not the backward-travelling-
> wave theory".
> Remember that fast (1500 m/s) compressional waves
> exist also, e.g., during ordinary exposures of the cochlea
> to sine tones. These waves have large wavelengths,
> no significant across-BM liquid-pressure difference, and thus
> yield no signals from the IHC's to the brain. Compressional
> waves can, however, travel from the cochlea to a
> microphone in the ear canal and be registered there.
> "My" model is therefore not affected by the otoacoustic-
> emission work by Ren et al., I believe.
> >... I believe that Ren questions whether energy is 'fed into'
> >the travelling wave ... particularly in his later paper these
> points become more clear .
> The fact that in a healthy cochlea energy is fed, by OHC's
> in the basal half of the active-peak x_b-region, into the TW,
> is proven, in my opinion, e.g. by the mentioned papers
> of Kolston (2000) and de Boer and Nuttall (1999).
> Reinhart Frosch.
> Reinhart Frosch,
> Dr. phil. nat.,
> r. PSI and ETH Zurich,
> Sommerhaldenstr. 5B,
> CH-5200 Brugg.
> Phone: 0041 56 441 77 72.
> Mobile: 0041 79 754 30 32.
> E-mail: reinifrosch@xxxxxxxxxx .
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